Modern cars with 356 spirit or look
- Pat Daily
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1140
- Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:04 pm
- Location: central Virginia
Last night I read my latest Panorama which has an article by Vic Elford and his experience in the historic 40th running of the Monte Carlo ralley. He drove a 1970 911 and talked about how much fun it was and how sophisticated it was in handling and remarked that today's cars are not like that because of all the sensing systems that take over when the car thinks it is being pushed too hard. Reminded me of why I like the 356 and haven't been able to find anything like it.
Pat Daily
Midlothian, VA
356B coupe (121123 aka "Fast Frieda")
Midlothian, VA
356B coupe (121123 aka "Fast Frieda")
- Stefan De Vleeschauwer
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:04 pm
- Location: Belgium
- Contact:
Re: 356-like?
I agree too, the Miata or MX5 (in Europe) from MazdaPerry Lee wrote:I agree with Rob on the Miata. Its nimble, not big on power, and is popular with the road racers, all which were the same traits as the 356 back it its day.rob whitacre wrote:it's gotta be Miata. particularly the early ones. simple, reliable, good design and built like a racecar (with taught suspension and steering, great shifter and gearing). and, it actually sounds like a sports car when wound out (which it likes). put one on the track and see.....
and some Lotus cars
regards
Stefan
356 B T6 super 75 coupe '63
#body : 124675 - engine : 706820 (matching)
Stefan
356 B T6 super 75 coupe '63
#body : 124675 - engine : 706820 (matching)
- Perry Lee
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:58 pm
- Location: Seattle
I forgot about the Lotus Exige and Elise. Another lightweight small engined car, great handling, and not the conventional front engined design. And just like Porsche during the 356 days, it has a limited dealer network, plus they are relatively rare, so you won't see one on the road during the day unless you live in SoCal.
http://www.lotuscars.com/index.html
I've never driven one, but they sure look like a lot of fun.
http://www.lotuscars.com/index.html
I've never driven one, but they sure look like a lot of fun.
Perry
Registry #11461
Registry #11461
- Ashley Page
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 841
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:08 pm
- Location: Davidson, NC
- Contact:
They are not that rare. There are two in the small town of Davidson NC and at least one in Mooresville, parked every day in the lot of a neighboring business. There is a dealer in Durham.Perry Lee wrote:so you won't see one on the road during the day unless you live in SoCal.
http://www.lotuscars.com/index.html
I haven't driven one either but just as I bought my 356 without ever having ridden in one, I know I would like the Lotus.
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- 356 Fan
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:29 pm
how do you attach pics ???
to these responses? I noticed some have included photos. I can't figure out how to do so.....thanks.
'63SuperCoupe
- Freddy Rabbat
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 639
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:08 pm
- Tag: Real Carreras have 4 cams
- Contact:
356-like?
Unquestionably the 997…
Proportionally rare compared to what is produced today, expensive, small, fast, comfortable and ready to be used everyday
Cheers,
Proportionally rare compared to what is produced today, expensive, small, fast, comfortable and ready to be used everyday
Cheers,
Freddy
www.356carrera.net
- Chris Markham
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:15 pm
- Location: Felton, CA
- Instagram: @csmarkham
- Contact:
There are lots of different ways to approach this. Rick Dill has a functional approach, Deborah King a spiritual one, others along the spectrum of literal to fanciful.
So I'll take a stab at a few:
Literal: PMO. Only in europe, soon to be PNG-powered, 356-alike enough to lose a lawsuit to Porsche, only to win on appeal. The Subaru-powered version is even still a flat four!
Russ Rodriquez' (et al.) plastic Speedsters(tm). Tough to call them "modern" cars, as most are literally running on 30-year-old VW pans. 'Cept the tube frame versions.
Spiritual: Then I asked myself, trying to build a mental path, "The 356 is a tough nut, vis. this inter-generational-comparison gendanken we've set ourselves up with here. So lets start with the spiritual predecessor to the 356, the VW bug (kDF, etc.). The qualities of that car most line up behind the Smart FourTwo. But this car is clearly not the spiritual successor to the 356. I've driven one, they're really very much like a VW Bug--that had the rear seat sectioned out. But it brings me to a nice mensa-test analogy: The Smart is to the VW Bug as the _________ is to the 356! Nice. Try a bunch of cars in that space. There are a couple that work for me. How about the Lotus Elise/Exige. Open/closed versions, like our 356. Slot car handling (which is why both were/are so much fun at the track), lightweight, good power-to-weight (each in their day).
Technical/Market: I think the 911 answer is well-reasoned. But here's more grist for that mill. Dr.s Ferdinand and Ferry with Herr Kommenda, were trying for something different from the Ferrari and Alfa that were already luxury cars in '48. So lets do the analogy thing again. If the 356 was to compete with, say the MG-TC/D and not with the Ferrari, then we ask: has the 911 moved closer to or further from the Ferrari? In some ways (power, performance) it has. In other ways, (cost, exclusivity) it has maintained its distance. So the argument is even stronger for the 911. It has a coupe and a cabriolet form. Sadly, no Speedster, but isn't the reason the Speedster existed really the same reason the 911-GT3 exists? Strip it down, make it light, so it will be faster, and go beat them at the track with it. Change the wheels and drive it to work the next day. Sounds like the life that many Speedsters lived in the day. So then the successor to the 356 Carrera is the 911 GT2. Seen this way, it is quite interesting to note how Porsche really has stayed close to its roots. Probably only Ferrari can make the same claim.
So, all that laid out, who can we say is carrying the same ouevre to car design today? Successful in other engineering projects, striking out on their own to make something unique, to compete with bigger companies, revolutionary technology (engine in the back was radical in '48, as were air-cooling and opposing-cylinders). I'm thinking that the Ariel Atom provided the base for the Wrightspeed X1 much as the VW supplied the base technology for the 356. But the Wrightspeed is just an driveline upgrade.
Fisker is doing more, doing rebodies and engineering. Tesla is doing a driveline replacement...and Lotus is making room for it in their chassis. But I think that the electric sportscar guys are going to be the ones to bring us the next 356.
So I'll take a stab at a few:
Literal: PMO. Only in europe, soon to be PNG-powered, 356-alike enough to lose a lawsuit to Porsche, only to win on appeal. The Subaru-powered version is even still a flat four!
Russ Rodriquez' (et al.) plastic Speedsters(tm). Tough to call them "modern" cars, as most are literally running on 30-year-old VW pans. 'Cept the tube frame versions.
Spiritual: Then I asked myself, trying to build a mental path, "The 356 is a tough nut, vis. this inter-generational-comparison gendanken we've set ourselves up with here. So lets start with the spiritual predecessor to the 356, the VW bug (kDF, etc.). The qualities of that car most line up behind the Smart FourTwo. But this car is clearly not the spiritual successor to the 356. I've driven one, they're really very much like a VW Bug--that had the rear seat sectioned out. But it brings me to a nice mensa-test analogy: The Smart is to the VW Bug as the _________ is to the 356! Nice. Try a bunch of cars in that space. There are a couple that work for me. How about the Lotus Elise/Exige. Open/closed versions, like our 356. Slot car handling (which is why both were/are so much fun at the track), lightweight, good power-to-weight (each in their day).
Technical/Market: I think the 911 answer is well-reasoned. But here's more grist for that mill. Dr.s Ferdinand and Ferry with Herr Kommenda, were trying for something different from the Ferrari and Alfa that were already luxury cars in '48. So lets do the analogy thing again. If the 356 was to compete with, say the MG-TC/D and not with the Ferrari, then we ask: has the 911 moved closer to or further from the Ferrari? In some ways (power, performance) it has. In other ways, (cost, exclusivity) it has maintained its distance. So the argument is even stronger for the 911. It has a coupe and a cabriolet form. Sadly, no Speedster, but isn't the reason the Speedster existed really the same reason the 911-GT3 exists? Strip it down, make it light, so it will be faster, and go beat them at the track with it. Change the wheels and drive it to work the next day. Sounds like the life that many Speedsters lived in the day. So then the successor to the 356 Carrera is the 911 GT2. Seen this way, it is quite interesting to note how Porsche really has stayed close to its roots. Probably only Ferrari can make the same claim.
So, all that laid out, who can we say is carrying the same ouevre to car design today? Successful in other engineering projects, striking out on their own to make something unique, to compete with bigger companies, revolutionary technology (engine in the back was radical in '48, as were air-cooling and opposing-cylinders). I'm thinking that the Ariel Atom provided the base for the Wrightspeed X1 much as the VW supplied the base technology for the 356. But the Wrightspeed is just an driveline upgrade.
Fisker is doing more, doing rebodies and engineering. Tesla is doing a driveline replacement...and Lotus is making room for it in their chassis. But I think that the electric sportscar guys are going to be the ones to bring us the next 356.
Chris M
59 Coupe #106728
'61 "Heinz 57" 1720. Stacks, ceramic headers, Supertrapp, Pertronix, Maestro 24k gold-plate coil strap for speed. Willhoit bar, Skirmants spring. 5" Brazilians. 20' paint w/abundant bubbles, GT straps, grilles.
59 Coupe #106728
'61 "Heinz 57" 1720. Stacks, ceramic headers, Supertrapp, Pertronix, Maestro 24k gold-plate coil strap for speed. Willhoit bar, Skirmants spring. 5" Brazilians. 20' paint w/abundant bubbles, GT straps, grilles.
- Stefan De Vleeschauwer
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:04 pm
- Location: Belgium
- Contact:
and what about Tesla ? look at http://www.teslamotors.com/
it is an US build car and no one did select it?
and with those fuel-prices is could be a good deal
Regards
Stefan
it is an US build car and no one did select it?
and with those fuel-prices is could be a good deal
Regards
Stefan
regards
Stefan
356 B T6 super 75 coupe '63
#body : 124675 - engine : 706820 (matching)
Stefan
356 B T6 super 75 coupe '63
#body : 124675 - engine : 706820 (matching)
- Dave Mitchell
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:33 pm
- Location: Sacramento, Ca
I like them just fine but for $98K and a 200 mile range what is the point....... They are so limited in their production they are a garage queen at best that can't even make it from Sacramento to SLO for North meets South.Stefan De Vleeschauwer wrote:and what about Tesla ? look at http://www.teslamotors.com/
it is an US build car and no one did select it?
and with those fuel-prices is could be a good deal
Regards
Stefan
Don't forget just like the energy saving flouresent bulbs that have MERCURY in them the 6100+ Li-Po batteries are VERY hard to recycle.
It's all about the trade-offs.........
Dave Mitchell
356 Registry Member #15707
Early 911S Registry Member #1287
Got Scrap? 510-715-7896
Soon to be a IM-6 Owner
http://photobucket.com/IM-6build
356 Registry Member #15707
Early 911S Registry Member #1287
Got Scrap? 510-715-7896
Soon to be a IM-6 Owner
http://photobucket.com/IM-6build
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:45 am
Deborah, you are not alone!
This is my '07 MINI Cooper. I went for the base model in the interest of saving gas (averaging 32.2 mpg in the city as of the last tank) and, of course, the stick. This car is a blast to drive. My '60 Super 90 is under the car cover in the cage, on the right of the picture. ( I live in the middle of the L.A. blightscape, in case you're wondering.)
Hilariously enough, I am 6'8" and have two extremely small cars, but my stock line for whenever people saw me getting out of my Porsche now applies to my Cooper:
Onlooker: It's so funny seeing a tall guy like you getting out of such a small car!
Me: Yeah. Obviously, I'm undercompensating for something.
-David
Hilariously enough, I am 6'8" and have two extremely small cars, but my stock line for whenever people saw me getting out of my Porsche now applies to my Cooper:
Onlooker: It's so funny seeing a tall guy like you getting out of such a small car!
Me: Yeah. Obviously, I'm undercompensating for something.
-David
MODERN 356 EQUIVALENT
The Lotus Elise, Audi TT, and Fiat Barchetta for starters and see the following links for a few more
http://www.europe.opel.com/brand_sites/ ... index.html
http://www.pgo.fr/models/speedster/index-en.html
And on the water :
http://www.sea-doo.com/en-US/Products/S ... edster150/
and of course, the Porsche Boxter, which fits the bill quite nicely.
http://www.europe.opel.com/brand_sites/ ... index.html
http://www.pgo.fr/models/speedster/index-en.html
And on the water :
http://www.sea-doo.com/en-US/Products/S ... edster150/
and of course, the Porsche Boxter, which fits the bill quite nicely.