Coa almost laughable

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Robert Thiemrodt
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Coa almost laughable

#1 Post by Robert Thiemrodt » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:35 pm

Received my coa today on my 69 911e barn find. While it does confirm matching numbers on both engine and tranny, under optional equipment it seems like a joke. They have 3 lines dedicated just to my glass. Line 1, tinted heated rear window, line 2 tinted windows targa, line 3 tinted windshield. Yet my car has every feature that qualifies it to be listed as built with the "comfort package" but that appears nowhere. I called them, and they said, "Sorry it's not listed on the kardex" anyone else ever disappointed by a $120.00 coa???
The left lane is for passing, MOVE OVER!!!!

chris romney
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Re: Coa almost laughable

#2 Post by chris romney » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:33 pm

At Rennsport I asked one of the employees in the "Porsche Classic" building if they were going to do anything to improve the COA, since as currently configured they aren't worth much unless you happen to know the original engine and transmission numbers for your car. I won't even mention how often they contain incorrect information. He replied that there would soon be a more "deluxe" version which would contain more information. In my opinion $120 is already plenty to get the basic information on your car. The new one will undoubtedly be more expensive. I was told by a friend in the UK if you were a club member there, they were free. Does anyone know if other marques like Mercedes, Ferrari or BMW charge for a COA?
 

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Adam Wright
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Re: Coa almost laughable

#3 Post by Adam Wright » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:07 pm

You can read my COA rant here.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44026&hilit=COA
I always need stories for my Barn Find column in the magazine, if you have a good story to share, please let me know.

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Eric Linden
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Re: Coa almost laughable

#4 Post by Eric Linden » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:27 am

Robert Thiemrodt wrote:Received my coa today on my 69 911e barn find. While it does confirm matching numbers on both engine and tranny, under optional equipment it seems like a joke. They have 3 lines dedicated just to my glass. Line 1, tinted heated rear window, line 2 tinted windows targa, line 3 tinted windshield. Yet my car has every feature that qualifies it to be listed as built with the "comfort package" but that appears nowhere. I called them, and they said, "Sorry it's not listed on the kardex" anyone else ever disappointed by a $120.00 coa???
The comfort package was standard on the 911E, and as such wouldn't have it mentioned as an "option".

Eric
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Robert Thiemrodt
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Re: Coa almost laughable

#5 Post by Robert Thiemrodt » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:04 am

The comfort package was standard on the 911E, and as such wouldn't have it mentioned as an "option"

Eric, The coa I’ve posted is for a car currently listed on eBay, although it is a ‘T’.
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The left lane is for passing, MOVE OVER!!!!

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Jules Dielen
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Re: Coa almost laughable

#6 Post by Jules Dielen » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:52 am

The comfort package was an option on the T and standard on the E (14" wheels et all), that is why it does not show up on yours. Eric is correct.

There were quite a few options for tinted windows.

rear window only, windshield only, windshield and side windows only and 'tinted all around', so your COA sounds pretty correct?
Jules

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Robert Thiemrodt
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Re: Coa almost laughable

#7 Post by Robert Thiemrodt » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:22 am

Jules Dielen wrote:The comfort package was an option on the T and standard on the E (14" wheels et all), that is why it does not show up on yours. Eric is correct.

There were quite a few options for tinted windows.

rear window only, windshield only, windshield and side windows only and 'tinted all around', so your COA sounds pretty correct?
Yes, my car seems to have every tinted window option available. On the 911e site it states that the 911e in almost all markets included the "comfort package" It doesn't state that USA was one of those markets. I'm just really glad to see they confirmed engine and tranny. Some coa's read that information isn't available. That would be a $ 120.00 dissapointment!!
The left lane is for passing, MOVE OVER!!!!

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Re: Coa almost laughable

#8 Post by Robert Bates » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:38 am

Mercedes offers a photocopy of their version of the Kardex for free. With more info than Porsche.
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Jules Dielen
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Re: Coa almost laughable

#9 Post by Jules Dielen » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:48 am

Robert Bates wrote:Mercedes offers a photocopy of their version of the Kardex for free. With more info than Porsche.
I should buy a Mercedes! 300SL gullwing is high on my list, just shy on funds by about 99%.

FWIW i do not believe the Mercedes card has the first owner's name on it, where many Kardexes do. That is why they are so hard to get


@ Robert, that is something porsche implemented recently, if you can supply the original engine and transmission numbers they will list them. If not, it will be blank (or not confirmed). This is their way of trying to keep people from buying a project car without an engine and then 'making' it matching by forging numbers. I fell for it a few years ago :(
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Jim Liberty
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Re: Coa almost laughable

#10 Post by Jim Liberty » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:56 pm

The C of A is still regarded as a document of authenticity by many. I've gone the other route, and use the Reutter Archives. Just for Reuter cars of course. $300 but complete information. ………………………..Jim.
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Alex Mestas
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Re: Coa almost laughable

#11 Post by Alex Mestas » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:25 pm

Robert, you are correct. In 2015 at Rennsport V Porsche Reps provided attendees with all the info from your cars Kardex if you provided them your vin #. (I also took my 1973.5 911T registration just in case.) I had recently ordered a COA and I was disappointed that there were very few of options listed. However the Kardex was loaded with info.

It was incredible how much more info I received. I was not allowed to see it, but he dictated every option. I really believe Porsche can create a nice profit center by providing complete COA. Opportunity lost

Kardex info included that my 73.5 911 T was ordered April 18, 1973

It had the following options
C02 us specific Equipment
402 Koni shocks F & R.
403 Stabilizers F&R
405 Reinforced drivers seat
430 Blue leather interior.
412 Madrcd velour inserts.
453 Blaupunkt Frankfurt
470 Convenience Package
482 Trunk & engine light.
559 Air Conditioning.
568 Tinted window
Drivers side Mirror

The reason they couldn't provide me with the actual built date is because that column is cut off on the microfiche and unreadable.

I rather have a Kardex than a COA.
1963 356 T-6 Coupe Signal Red.
1973.5 911 T Coupe Ivory.
1989 911 Carrera Targa Grd Prix White.

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Nanette Reid
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Re: Coa almost laughable

#12 Post by Nanette Reid » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:26 pm

Jules Dielen wrote:
Robert Bates wrote:Mercedes offers a photocopy of their version of the Kardex for free. With more info than Porsche.
<<<

FWIW i do not believe the Mercedes card has the first owner's name on it, where many Kardexes do. That is why they are so hard to get


>>>
It would be quite easy to scan a Kardex and remove any previous owner details before sending to the current owner.

I always have to laugh at the requirements of tranny & engine number requirements - what if they've been replaced?? I could give the tranny, VIN and engine number, but as the engine isn't original, would they still provide me with a COA? Is there a reason the Registration pages aren't sufficient?

I have 3 versions - one from PCNA from when I first purchased my car (dated 1995), one from Germany (in German) (dated 2008) and one from Porsche Australia (dated 2014). The first two I paid for, the last one was provided free. All they required: my registration papers showing the VIN.
COA_US_1995.jpg
COA_DE_2008.jpg
COA_AU_2014.jpg
This is my Kardex, it doesn't really provide much more info but it was nice to see the "real deal".
Kardex.jpg
And the same with no owner details (took me 30 seconds to remove).
Kardex_No-Name.jpg

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Ron LaDow
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Re: Coa almost laughable

#13 Post by Ron LaDow » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:36 pm

We can gripe about this and we have, but we really have little leverage.
Our value to the factory is strictly 'as perceived' (non-metric) marketing, balanced against the small income they get from these, and the (seeming) liability issues in releasing too much info. Which probably leaves the factory wondering why they do it at all. So while I'd love a complete history for my cars, the factory is answerable to a whole lot of people with more clout: The stockholders.
The obvious solution here is to make the transaction valuable enough to the factory that they are happy to provide the data we prefer, paying what it probably does cost them to edit the kardexes (by competent folks), issue them and accept the liability; likely not in the $150-range.
Put it this way:
There is a common enough claim that no one should care about 'matching numbers'; if that's true, why would you bother buying a COA anyhow? I disagree, in that buyers ('the market') care about that. How much is that worth?
Let's pick some arbitrary numbers: Hagerty says a full resto B coupe (IOWs, not one of the top end models, but in OMG condition) sells for $135K for "#1 Concours" to $47K "fair", with $99K "#2 Excellent".
Given that the numbers are cherry-picked, we'll knock the "#1 Concours down to $90K. I'm still going to suggest that that "#1 Concours" car is going to take at least a 10% hit for a non-original engine; $9K.
A modest proposal: Let's offer the factory compensation somewhat in line with the increase we, as owners, hope to realize with factory documentation of the features on our cars. The market value of that information will quickly become obvious, and the factory will get the returns rather than the current 'leakage' sources.
And if you 'really don't care' about that sort of thing, see above. Don't buy one.
Ron LaDow
www.precisionmatters.biz

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Re: Coa almost laughable

#14 Post by Steve Douglas » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:37 pm

I have the Kardex for my cars, and they show work that was done during the warranty period, but it is coded as 5 digit numbers: #29028 was done at 4696 km., #16438 was done 4977km., and #16407 was done at 6142km. Any ideas on what work was done? Reimbursed by the factory.
Car delivered "tourist delivery", picked up at factory, service at dealer in Munich then shipped to San Francisco, arriving in January 1960.
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