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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:23 am 
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President Donald Trump is preparing to impose a total ban on German luxury carmakers from the U.S. market, according to an exclusive report by German magazine WirtschaftsWoche.
Better buy your new Porsche now.

https://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/auto/im ... 20470.html

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:47 am 
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More fake news. American cars have a 10% tariff in the EU. EU cars have a 2.5% tariff in the US. President Trump is not the President of the EU. Ultimately hanging on every word said by our administration while they are negotiating to improve the position of the American worker is foolish. Will you be devastated if the true end result of the negotiations with the EU is that their tariff on American cars drops to 2.5%? Relax, remember when Trump was criticized for the inevitable nuclear war his rhetoric was going to cause. Calm down and always consider the source when you hear these things. Once an agreement is reached then will be the time to analyze and criticize.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:49 am 
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Not my problem as I will likely never buy another car. Just reporting what I saw which was a report from a European false news agency via "The Hill" which is widely read on the hill.
You are correct on the tariffs CJ but the main reason American cars do not sell well in Europe is the build quality and relatively high fuel consumption. My 21 year old boxster shows well against any American built sports car of the same age. Sad to say that when we went shopping a few years ago for a "luxury" sedan we bought a Lexus because it was the best we found after we drove 20 other cars from Japan, Europe and the USA.
I wanted a Panamera but was voted down on cost. The Cadillac was OK but the styling was abhorrent.
Lastly, just try and sell a pick up in Europe let alone drive one anywhere off the main highways.
Lets face it we like foreign cars and until the US auto industry makes smaller more fuel efficient cars they have to rely on their subsidiaries in Europe to build and sell their European versions. I would have bought a European big three sedan many times if they built and sold them over here but I am probably an anomaly in the car buying market. I like my Indiana built Subaru and my Lexus is now built in Kentucky. Both those cars sold well in Europe despite 10% tariffs which may well be ending so they will buy even more of them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:52 am 
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CJ, I do not entirely agree with you and because this is probably not a subject for the main discussion as it is only a little about Porsche and new cars at that, I replied in the "Off topic" forum.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:06 pm 
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It’s ALL fake news nowadays..


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Was the original posting deleted because of CJ's semi political bent? (EDIT; now see the original was posted under Main Discussion and not deleted but moved to Off Topic)
My comments in the B17 posting is sort of along a similar thought. Only because the USA had an enormous manufacturing base were we able to produce massive weapons, aircraft and tanks. Will we ever need that capability again? Let's hope not and it may not be relevant in the nuclear age but smaller conflicts with boots on the ground do amazingly well armed only with AK 47's, lots of bullets and no fear of dying.
David you're right, while the american autos have improved tremendously the high end imports, especially German, have the crisp, stable feel I like. Probably thanks to the higher or no limit speeds on autobahns.
My observation, also, is that the asian auto designs look a bit too "star trekish" for me. Only KIA seems to escape that melodrama by using a European designer (I think).
Ford looks like they're throwing in the towel, at least for US factories by dropping sedans.
So as they say, "we'll see, we'll see"
Ray


Last edited by ray nelson on Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:43 pm 
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Dear moderator,
Please merge this into the off topic thread on the same subject. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:25 pm 
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Very interesting comments and pics of the B17, what a machine!

Politics and opinions on tariffs aside, it is true that American car mfg's have mostly ignored those conscious of fuel economy. There are more 6000lb trucks/suv's on the road then ever, many of them costing $70+K. Where are the Focus ST wagons I see everywhere in Europe, why not here? So many examples of this...

New German cars may be nice to drive, but I would not want one out of warranty. I vowed never to own another Audi when we sold ours with 108K. It was a nice car, but so many problems and the thing was a pain to work on for the DIY'er. German car reliability has not improved at all IMO, and the resale value is terrible. I almost bought a new Golf cross country wagon for my wife (as it comes with AWD and manual trans, which she insists on), then I learned of the faulty PCV system that causes RMS leaks and bad timing chains. Not a car I would feel comfortable owning out of warranty for a variety of reasons.
I still drive an 03 Jetta TDI with 295k on it, and it has been a great car, but it all depends on which model/yr you get. I would not touch a newer Tdi with temperamental inj system, DPF problems, etc. I have seen too many suffer $10K repairs with under 100K.

Japanese are good, but I agree the styling is awful and manual transmissions are pretty much extinct. They just don't do it for me, and lets not forget the Subaru oil burning problem and continued head gasket issue's (I live in the land of Subarus and know of many horror stories and disappointed owners with nearly new cars). I would take an Acura SH AWD if they still came manual, but stopped making those back in 08.

Cars in general are just too complicated now, and mostly require premium fuel and dealer service. Dinosaurs like me are left in the dust since I do not want screens or any of the other garbage that they pack into todays cars. Transporation does not need to be so complicated or expensive!

The only manual transmission 4wd that checked the boxes for my Wife was a new Jeep 4dr Wrangler. Not exactly the most practical family rig for most, but it works OK for us. It is already having some issues but I can do any work to it myself, one of the last DIY friendly vehicles. Really disappointing where they pinched pennies on these, but so far holding up well on the bad roads around here (just wished they painted the frame and suspension components better!).

Anyway, just frustrated by the technology frenzy and the avoidance of anything that requires some human discretion. I think they all stink!
I commute 80 miles/day, need to haul kids and plenty of stuff regularly and drive some tough roads/conditions. The car I want does not exist in todays market..

Wow, sorry my rant is really veering off topic.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:02 am 
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Hopefully the Wrangler will not give any electronic issues, as they will not be DIY friendly, but the rest of it is not too complicated to work on.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:18 am 
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I like to watch a lot of English TV shows and I see large numbers of SUVs on those. Although they aren't light or agile or in any way pleasurable to me they have their purpose and for instance my wife was driving an Audi A6 2.7T 6 speed, then a BMW 328 XI 6 speed coupe but when the grandkids came along she switched to a Ford Escape with the bigger 4 cylinder turbo and an automatic transmission. Ask any woman about kids and car seats and all the crap you have to bring with you.

SUVs have a purpose and the US makes some of the very best and most affordable ones on the market. People love their Porsche SUVs too but I don't really get the point of paying 2 to 4 times as much money for a truck that is meant to be a workhorse utility vehicle and will be trashed. Nobody cares about acceleration or handling when you are driving through heavy traffic to get from day care to work. One thing my wife loves is that she no longer has to deal with the attitude and cost of visiting the Audi or BMW dealers plus it has required absolutely nothing but regular scheduled maintenance in the 4 years we have owned it.

We could talk about modern Corvettes as well but I don't want to offend the modern Porsche owners.

We do make some very good vehicles and maybe we could sell a few more if the playing field was level.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:58 pm 
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Hi Martin, one common issue apparently is crank sensor, which will leave it dead in the water. Cheap part and not too expensive so maybe I will grab a spare. I just finished doing front axle ujoints (driver side a bit dry which could be felt through steering wheel), all brakes/ebrake and shocks. Not a big deal at all, and saved a fortune from bringing it to dealer since these are all "wear items" and not covered. It was already difficult to get the front axle apart, but now it is all painted and all threads chased/never seized. When I realized I put the backing plates on backwards and had to take it all the way back apart, it came apart in like 15 minutes.

CJ, totally agree about todays American cars, but disappointed with the lack of manual transmissions and wagons available. We are happy so far with our 3rd Jeep, but the Compass we owned briefly prior to this Wrangler got destroyed by our daily dirt road travels. It was a cheap POS, but did drive well and had the manual trans my Wife insists on. If my wife were not so stubborn about three pedals we would have a lot more to chose from. She had a few bad experiences with automatics over the years, and she hates not being in full control (the control freak that she is!).

All I want in a daily driver car is: reasonable MPG's, mid size wagon, manual trans, preferably AWD but not necessary. They are all over Europe, but virtually nothing left here (including Subaru as of 2017, except for the tiny XV), certainly not from an American MFG. Something that is built to last, easy to service, no TV screens, has buttons and controls I can feel while driving, does not need premium fuel, 15" wheels with some sidewall. I may need to step back in time again for my next DD. Tired of seeing so many Subaru's, but they are popular for a reason and do meet a lot of this criteria. Or maybe enter the Volvo world.

As for the new German cars, sure - if I had the dough to keep a new one always under warranty, and rack the many hard miles I do with no concern about resale value..

The cars you mentioned have all been on my radar at one time, but they are getting older and very needy now and I am not sure I have the energy to take one on. Totally agree about the Vettes, especially when I see what an LS1/6MT can be bought for (C5's, etc). A lot of fun for the money...And who'd of thunk a junkyard Chevy truck motor in a 996 is actually an improvement? haha, I won't go that far...

Obviously I am an anomaly which is why the market ignores me, but there are more of us 'anomalies' then I think the MFG's realize.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:42 pm 
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I vacationed in Ireland last summer visiting relatives, and I rented a Skoda, a pretty good sized car. I was a little leery, it was a 6-speed diesel sedan, but it made a believer out of me. Lots of room, very nice interior, decent performance, and staggering mileage--when I turned it in at the end of the week, it had over 1000 km's on it with 1/4 tank left. I'd buy one if they had it here.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:57 pm 
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We bought a new Cherokee inline 6 engine six speed manual in the early '90s and my wife drove that thing over 140k miles hauling 2 kids and a dog everywhere. I maintained it myself but it never needed anything but regular maintenance. That was the vehicle that Renault designed and that was very pleasant to drive, almost car like. Then she got the first gen Honda CRV and it was ok but really boring and was FWD until it slipped and AWD kicked in. It was a joke compared to the Jeep. When my oldest daughter started driving it went to her to destroy and Jean got the Audi A6. That car was very nice. It was amazing in snow like you just drove the roads like they were dry, amazing. We did a 9000 mile circuit of the US in it as a family of 4. Out west on the secondary roads on the high plains we did multiple miles of 135 MPH and it was zero effort. Would have gone faster but as an all season tire car it was speed limited. I even let my oldest daughter try some serious high speed driving. Can't believe my wife went for that one. When we got over 100k miles and the extended warranty expired I got nervous and traded it in on the BMW "ultimate driving machine" which we had to special order from the factory to get a manual transmission. That car was a big big disappointment. The AWD was good but no match for the Audi, not even close. The car had the feeling of a car that was designed to be sporting but it wasn't really. The run-flat tires were horrid, a travesty. The ride was so poor over road irregularities(PA has many) that it was startling to the point of distraction. Wether driving or passenger I couldn't wait to get out of that car when I was in it. That said my daily driver is a base model Mini(BMW) that is one of the most pleasant riding and handling cars I have ever owned, and it even hauls 356 engine parts to the machine shop like I did today. BMW just missed the mark badly on the 3 series XI. It felt to me that it had limited suspension travel and that is why it was more harsh than a race car. It was a little better when we got rid of the run flats but it still sucked. The Alfa Milano she had before kids was vastly superior.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:00 pm 
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jim nelson wrote:
I vacationed in Ireland last summer visiting relatives, and I rented a Skoda, a pretty good sized car. I was a little leery, it was a 6-speed diesel sedan, but it made a believer out of me. Lots of room, very nice interior, decent performance, and staggering mileage--when I turned it in at the end of the week, it had over 1000 km's on it with 1/4 tank left. I'd buy one if they had it here.

We, 4 of us, rented a Ford minivan diesel manual trans when we were there and that was a pleasure too.

Skoda is owned by VW, right? That should be good.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:47 pm 
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Jim, Yes they are very good cars and check a lot of boxes for me. I was in Germany last Summer and saw a ton of these. Whenever I rent a car there they just assume I want an auto since I am American. I go out of my way to rent a manual, especially in Germany! I may be going to Germany later this Summer, I should revisit the idea of bringing something back.

Cliff, I can relate. We too had the XJ Cherokee with manual trans and it was probably the best vehicle we ever owned (especially for our needs at the time). Sold it at around 175K and got quit a bit for it. Needed virtually nothing, even with the ravages of salt and daily dirt road duties.
We then got an A4 Avant Quattro with 6spd 1.8T. Nice car, but the roads here tore it up and it had like 8 ball joints in the front end. I understand the design and can appreciate what this geometry did for handling, but it was a pain to keep it right, and ate expensive tires like crazy (all that was available in the size was soft compound performance tires) Then we had a few other issues (plastic coolant parts on engine leaking, etc), but over all it was a good car. I sold it before the next big round of repairs. can't really complain with that one, it was more our application that was not a good fit.

In my previous life I was an old Audi guy, I had a few turbo swapped 4000Q's and I loved them, still do. They are old now though! I love the manual rear and center locker, but they were eventually deemed unsafe for the US market..

Anyway, it blows my mind when I see all of these manual trans equipped vehicles in Europe. I rented an Alfa turbo diesl there w 6spd and it was an incredible car, event the cheapo Opel Astra wagon I once rented with a little 1.6 and 5spd really screamed and handled very well. I had it over 140MPH down a hill. They get all the fun stuff over there, if they brought some of it over here I would happily pay 2x the tax! ;)

One car that really seemed cool was the Focus RS wagon. Premium fuel be damned. Crazy that Ford will not bring them over, an American car I would buy one for sure.

A lot of this all comes down to DOT and EPA, really silly stuff when you look into it.


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