Manners and Ethics
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- 356 Fan
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Manners and Ethics
There is a yellow car for sale in our classifieds. It is being sold by a very new member (joined 1-28-17). One of the pictures is of a sheet with a timeline of the history of the car. Last entry, dated 2017, is owner agrees to sell car to very appreciative new owner.
Why is the new owner so appreciative? Because she got the opportunity to flip the car and make money the previous owners should have got?
What's her cut? $10K, $20K, or $50K? Wonder if the previous owners would feel the same appreciation if they knew.
Why is the new owner so appreciative? Because she got the opportunity to flip the car and make money the previous owners should have got?
What's her cut? $10K, $20K, or $50K? Wonder if the previous owners would feel the same appreciation if they knew.
Last edited by Edwin Ek on Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#6386
- Mike Wilson
- Classifieds Monitor
- Posts: 11492
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:37 pm
- Location: SW Los Angeles
Re: Manners and Ethics
Edwin, reading the timeline, the car belonged to her late husband and she and/or the family has finally decided to sell it. I'm sure interested buyers will confirm the car exists and perform a comprehensive PPI. Perhaps one of our members even knows the car or lives close enough to confirm. I know of an A cab that has been sitting in a garage for 5+ years since the owner's passing. His wife isn't ready to sell the car for sentimental reasons.
As far as recently joining, perhaps she was steered by a member to the Registry as a good location to market the car to knowledgeable and appreciative individuals.
As far as recently joining, perhaps she was steered by a member to the Registry as a good location to market the car to knowledgeable and appreciative individuals.
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
- C J Murray
- 356 Fan
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Re: Manners and Ethics
I read it like Mike did.
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
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- 356 Fan
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Re: Manners and Ethics
I understood all that. My objection is the sanctimonious, phony gratitude for the chance to flip the car (and potentially exploit the previous elderly? owners).
Genuine gratitude in my view would be if the flipper wanted to own the car for the long term.
If the flipper were only doing a favor by helping the family sell a car, why would he or she be very grateful?
Genuine gratitude in my view would be if the flipper wanted to own the car for the long term.
If the flipper were only doing a favor by helping the family sell a car, why would he or she be very grateful?
Last edited by Edwin Ek on Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#6386
- C J Murray
- 356 Fan
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Re: Manners and Ethics
The car is not owned by a flipper. It is owned by the widow of the person that bought it in 2003 and died in 2008.
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:16 am
- Location: Santa Monica, CA
- C J Murray
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 9164
- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:24 pm
- Location: 30MI WEST OF PHILA
- Contact:
Re: Manners and Ethics
Ok, is that offensive? They don't want it. I think they want it to go to somebody who will appreciate it. How are you reading their intent?
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
- Mike Wilson
- Classifieds Monitor
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- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:37 pm
- Location: SW Los Angeles
Re: Manners and Ethics
I'd read that as "flippers need not apply..." She wants the car to go to someone that is going to enjoy it.
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
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- 356 Fan
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Re: Manners and Ethics
The flipper's intent surely is to make a buck. The purchase and resale are both in this month.
Sure, earning a profit is fine. But I don't like it when people take advantage of someone less knowledgeable.
Sure, sellers should inform themselves. But Mike pointed out the seller is a (most probably elderly) widow. That smacks of information asymmetry to me. Would the seller really be pleased she made a gift to a (presumably) stranger of many thousands of dollars? How would you feel if the shoe were on your foot?
I once asked a very prominent member here, whose business is to travel all over the country, buy stashes of cars and parts, and haul them home for resale, about this. His answer showed that he clearly had thought about this and wanted to be able to sleep at night. His practice is to just accept a very favorable (too low) sales price if the seller offers it. But if asked first, he doesn't lie. I asked about the little old lady angle. He said he is reluctant to take advantage.
After all, it is almost a perfect confluence of circumstances to allow this nonsense: lots of elderly owners whose ideas about values are anchored in the past, reduced likelihood to investigate current values (e.g. less use of the web), lack of a central pricing mechanism (compare the stock market), thinly traded assets, highly individualized assets, recent rapid price appreciation, etc.
Sure, earning a profit is fine. But I don't like it when people take advantage of someone less knowledgeable.
Sure, sellers should inform themselves. But Mike pointed out the seller is a (most probably elderly) widow. That smacks of information asymmetry to me. Would the seller really be pleased she made a gift to a (presumably) stranger of many thousands of dollars? How would you feel if the shoe were on your foot?
I once asked a very prominent member here, whose business is to travel all over the country, buy stashes of cars and parts, and haul them home for resale, about this. His answer showed that he clearly had thought about this and wanted to be able to sleep at night. His practice is to just accept a very favorable (too low) sales price if the seller offers it. But if asked first, he doesn't lie. I asked about the little old lady angle. He said he is reluctant to take advantage.
After all, it is almost a perfect confluence of circumstances to allow this nonsense: lots of elderly owners whose ideas about values are anchored in the past, reduced likelihood to investigate current values (e.g. less use of the web), lack of a central pricing mechanism (compare the stock market), thinly traded assets, highly individualized assets, recent rapid price appreciation, etc.
Last edited by Edwin Ek on Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#6386
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- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:16 am
- Location: Santa Monica, CA
Re: Manners and Ethics
I read that as flipper buys the car.Mike Wilson wrote:I'd read that as "flippers need not apply..." She wants the car to go to someone that is going to enjoy it.
If the new member is only an agent, not a short-term owner, then all is well. But very often then the ad says selling on behalf of the owner.
#6386
- C J Murray
- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:24 pm
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Re: Manners and Ethics
The widow still owns the car.
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1898
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:16 am
- Location: Santa Monica, CA
Re: Manners and Ethics
Good news. Where do you see that?
I looked at the ad closely because Condor yellow and aquamarine metallic blue are my two favorite 356 colors.
I looked at the ad closely because Condor yellow and aquamarine metallic blue are my two favorite 356 colors.
#6386
- Sebastian Gaeta
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Manners and Ethics
That's the way I read it too--that the long-term owner died and it is his wife and family that is selling the car.C J Murray wrote:The widow still owns the car.
Edwin is usually on point, but it appears he feels there is a third party involved when I don't believe there is. That is likely where the confusion lies.
Sebastian Gaeta
www.arbormotion.com
Registry #8339
'65 C coupe
'64 C cab
-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle
www.arbormotion.com
Registry #8339
'65 C coupe
'64 C cab
-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle
- Sebastian Gaeta
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 3047
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:50 pm
- Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Manners and Ethics
Where it says "current owner, my husband, buys the car" and then "Husband passes away".Edwin Ek wrote:Good news. Where do you see that?
I looked at the ad closely because Condor yellow and aquamarine metallic blue are my two favorite 356 colors.
Sebastian Gaeta
www.arbormotion.com
Registry #8339
'65 C coupe
'64 C cab
-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle
www.arbormotion.com
Registry #8339
'65 C coupe
'64 C cab
-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle
- Jim Clement
- 356 Fan
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- Tag: 1957 356 A Coupe
- Location: Calgary Alberta
Re: Manners and Ethics
I read that as some one who has taken some time to document what they know, and are likely proud of that.
When I die, I hope my family and wife will do the same if they want to sell it.. and it will go to an "appreciative buyer" .. some one who wants a 356 for themselves and that would not really be a car flipper..
hopefully she will sell it to some one who loved it as her late husband probably did.
I have recently started to get the history of my car together.. I would have truly appreciated similar information..
I guess it is all about perspective..
When I die, I hope my family and wife will do the same if they want to sell it.. and it will go to an "appreciative buyer" .. some one who wants a 356 for themselves and that would not really be a car flipper..
hopefully she will sell it to some one who loved it as her late husband probably did.
I have recently started to get the history of my car together.. I would have truly appreciated similar information..
I guess it is all about perspective..