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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:46 pm 
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"One of the single most effective moments of the Civil Rights movement of the 60's wasn't MLK's I Have a Dream speech..."

Care to rephrase that one, Adam?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:56 pm 
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I think one idea behind adding ethanol was to reduce the overall amount of gasoline needed. But now we know what problems it has created. Considering how newer cars are more fuel-efficient and we have hybrids and electric vehicles, it's time to eliminate the ethanol.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:13 pm 
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David Jones wrote:
All Al [Gore] did was make money off a not entirely accurate documentary.


That's rich. That's like saying Stalin was "not entirely humanitarian."

Brian

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:19 pm 
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Mike Wilson wrote:
Yep, we in California are bound by "higher standards". The up side is better air quality.


Are you sure about that? How would the air quality be worsened if the ethanol was removed?

Brian

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:55 pm 
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As the information age slowly lifts the curtain(think Wizard of Oz) to expose the manipulation and motivation of our elected officials(both parties) it becomes ever so more obvious that arguing the tiny details of their debacles only serves to distract us from the real problem. No one entity(big government) can be competent at managing every aspect of human activity. They do not have adequate expertise. Add to that the fact that lobbyists lie for money, manipulate for money, and find that most politicians are very pliable when they receive financial gain. Trying to inform our elected officials of their mistakes is pointless because the influence to do the wrong thing is extremely strong. Is there anything that government doesn't want to regulate to the point of being oppressive? Medicine, food, property, activity, morality, expression. To government we are just a bunch of idiots to be treated like England treated the colonists.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:25 pm 
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C J Murray wrote:
To government we are just a bunch of idiots to be treated like England treated the colonists.


Not to mention the way the colonists treated the "Native Americans," prompting their response of "Peace upon you my white brothers."

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:22 pm 
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Sooooooo, the faithful, what the hell is there to be done about the fix we find ourselves in? Point the way to sanity and I'll meet ya at the station. Don't bring your complaints to this forum unless ya have a plan to right the facts that we already know are responsible for the mess we are in. It may be the best system available at the moment, but, I'm still looking for a way to bring common sense back to the republic that gave us so many ways to happiness that even the simple minded among us can find something to bitch about. Bless you for remembering where you came from and who loves you.

Really, I thought this was a site for those who loved what Porsche did when they built the 356. When did we become a bunch of old farts with too much of a good thing going for us that we needed to bring up the state of the union.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:00 pm 
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Hey, Brian:

My comment was not related to the addition of ethanol in gasoline but rather the higher standards for air quality in general in California. I think the addition of ethanol was an attempt to reduce the amount of gasoline used and therefore reduce pollution. However, I have no idea what the effects of burning ethanol are.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:57 pm 
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Ethanol fuel would have never existed without government. You can't deal with one without dealing with the other. Hence the protest petition. Otherwise, without government, ADM or whoever wanted to pedal the crap fuel would have lost a fortune starting day one. Nobody would voluntarily purchase ethanol fuel. It's not D vs R or Liberal vs Conservative thing so nobody has to fall on their idealogical swords. I'm only suggesting that the situation will not change until powerful people no longer find ethanol fuel financially beneficial to them personally. My observation is more human nature than it is political. My comments about the size of government were a bit ideological but I guess it is fair to say that when government is large they even regulate fuel content. We could also relate this to all the many fabulous foreign market cars which were regulated out of the US market.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:52 pm 
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The reason we have ethanol in our gasoline does not trace originally to lowering fossil fuel use. It was introduced after 1995 as part of an EPA Winter Oxygenated Fuels Program primarily to lower carbon monoxide (CO) levels in metro areas which suffered high CO levels in winter, largely due to stagnant, pooled air masses. The primary oxygenation additive early on was methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) but its use in the US is declining both because of its occurrence in groundwater (banned by California and NY in 2004, complicated slow phase-out elsewhere) and political pressure favoring ethanol fuel.

The Union Of Concerned Scientists writes: "The lifecycle emissions of ethanol—from seed to tailpipe—depend on how the ethanol is made and what it is made from. The best ethanol can produce as much as 90 percent fewer lifecycle emissions compared to gasoline, but the worst ethanol can produce significantly more lifecycle emissions than gasoline." Unfortunately, corn-based ethanol exemplifies the worst. And then there is the negative effect on prices of food and other non-fuel products attributable to the demand for fuel corn.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:07 pm 
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Brian: Many thanks for that info.

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