VW Mess

[Andrei Chivvis]

I don't think it will put VW out of business. German government can afford it and will no allow. On the other hand VW will become a tempting target for other governments to turn it into "a teaching moment" at another country's expense. So it will be very financially painful for VW corporation as a whole.

[Dennis ODonnell]

Recalls and massive fines don't bring down car companies. Poor engineering and bad marketing do. Reengineering their diesels and marketing a "New Volkswagen A.G." might bring them back. Otherwise, they might break into two parts like "bad bank/ good bank" or the former GM and sell the liabilities slowly. There's always GeeLee and Tata if the family bails.

Interesting that the same mindset is at work now that Porsche has had before re salvaging an expensive engine design rather than finding a better way. The ethical thing is disappointing but the arrogance is not new.

[Brian R Adams]

This episode raised VW's standing in my estimation, and probably roughly half of the population will harbor similar secret thoughts.

But suppose you own one of the recalled VW TDIs. Are you bound to have the software "fixed"? Under what jurisdiction? How is EPA and the 50 states' motor vehicle divisions all going to be able to monitor and track which cars are running the old S/W?

Brian

[Dennis ODonnell]

Not aware of any state where a service bulletin/ recall notice is mandatory for a car's owner as it would be for a plane's.

[Brian R Adams]

Not aware of any state where a service bulletin/ recall notice is mandatory for a car's owner as it would be for a plane's.

Sure, but they can disallow you passing an emissions check, preventing you from registering it.

[David Lawrence]

Winterkorn Resigning as CEO of Porsche
Finance chief Hans Dieter Pötsch to assume post on Nov. 1
Oct. 17, 2015 11:51 a.m. ET
BERLIN–– Porsche Automobil Holding SE said Saturday that Chief Executive Martin Winterkorn is stepping down, effective Oct. 31.

Hans Dieter Pötsch will succeed Mr. Winterkorn as chief executive on Nov. 1. Mr. Winterkorn’s departure was widely expected after his resignation under pressure last month as CEO of Volkswagen AG .

Wall Street Journal: http://www.wsj.com/articles/winterkorn- ... 1445097096

[Dennis ODonnell]

"Sure, but they can disallow you passing an emissions check, preventing you from registering it."

The cars will pass the emissions check as-is. Individual states will have to catch the disparity between user experience and mfr's numbers, like California or be directed to reject certain series of VINs by the Feds, won't they?

Cars already on the road might be recalled for a s/w patch at VW's expense. Depending on your state you may or may not have to go in for the work. Kind of like alcohol and gun control. We don't have inspections in NM outside of Albuquerque, e.g. my old Chevy truck and lawnmower pollute to their hearts' content.

[Brian R Adams]

If I had one, I would be happy to ignore the recall and drive it with the original ECU code, as long as state DMV kept passing it.

[Jim Karaba]

Send all those value-less cars here to Louisiana. I'll buy one and drive it as is, no smog check here.

[Doug McDonnell]

Surprise! It seems the Cayenne Diesel may also have problems.

[Adam Wright]

My stock is still up 17% from when I bought it the day after the shiznit hit the fan.

[Jim Alton]

Surprise! It seems the Cayenne Diesel may also have problems.

From http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/violations.htm

On November 2, 2015 EPA issued an NOV to Volkswagen AG, Audi AG, Porsche AG, Volkswagen Group of America, Inc., and Porsche Cars North America, Inc (collectively referred to as Volkswagen for the purposes of these violations). This NOV alleges that certain six- cylinder (3.0 liter) diesel vehicles also employ software that circumvents EPA emissions standards.

The software is a “defeat device,” as defined by the Clean Air Act. California separately issued an In-Use Compliance letter to Volkswagen, Audi, and Porsche. EPA and the California Air Resources Board are investigating Volkswagen’s alleged actions involving both sets of vehicles.

There's a lot of detail at the EPA website.

Back when the original scandal with the 4 cylinder VW diesels broke, Porsche said their VW-based diesels had unique-to-Porsche controls and weren't affected. I haven't yet seen anything from Porsche on the new allegations.

[Adam Wright]

Surprise! It seems the Cayenne Diesel may also have problems.

From http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/violations.htm

On November 2, 2015 EPA issued an NOV to Volkswagen AG, Audi AG, Porsche AG, Volkswagen Group of America, Inc., and Porsche Cars North America, Inc (collectively referred to as Volkswagen for the purposes of these violations). This NOV alleges that certain six- cylinder (3.0 liter) diesel vehicles also employ software that circumvents EPA emissions standards.

The software is a “defeat device,” as defined by the Clean Air Act. California separately issued an In-Use Compliance letter to Volkswagen, Audi, and Porsche. EPA and the California Air Resources Board are investigating Volkswagen’s alleged actions involving both sets of vehicles.

There's a lot of detail at the EPA website.

Back when the original scandal with the 4 cylinder VW diesels broke, Porsche said their VW-based diesels had unique-to-Porsche controls and weren't affected. I haven't yet seen anything from Porsche on the new allegations.

Porsche released a statement feigning complete surprise.
And I quote,


“Until this notice, all of our information was that the Porsche Cayenne Diesel is fully compliant,” the brand said."

[Jim Alton]

There's something at http://www.autonews.com/article/2015110 ... s-epa-says:

November 2, 2015 - 1:17 pm ET -- UPDATED: 11/2/15 6:06 pm ET - adds details

Including:

In a statement from its headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany, parent company Volkswagen AG denied it had installed software to mask its emissions. It said it was informed by the EPA that its V6 diesel engines had a software function that “had not been adequately described” to the agency in VW’s applications for certification that its vehicles met U.S. emissions standards.

“Volkswagen AG wishes to emphasize that no software has been installed in the 3-liter V6 diesel power units to alter emissions characteristics in a forbidden manner,” the company said in a statement. “Volkswagen will cooperate fully with the EPA clarify this matter in its entirety.”

In its own statement, Porsche Cars North America said the company was “surprised” to learn of the alleged violations.

“Until this notice, all of our information was that the Porsche Cayenne Diesel is fully compliant,” the statement said. “Porsche Cars North America will cooperate fully with all relevant authorities.”


The new allegations about the Audi-designed V6 diesels talk about a timer that switches off a “temperature conditioning” engine mode. The timer happens to switch that mode off one second after the duration of the initial phase of the EPA test.

I do recall hearing of some pollution controls intended to bring catalysts or other components up to temperature quickly, so maybe this is a misunderstanding on the part of the EPA... maybe not.

[steverestelli]

I would take a 17% profit and run. The story is getting worse with 11,000,000 cars worldwide involved as of 11/2.
Here is what the NY Times had to say:

The latest finding covers about 10,000 passenger cars already sold in the United States since the model year 2014. The violation notice also covers an unspecified number of 2016 vehicles. The cars found to have the software installed are the diesel versions of the 2014 VW Touareg, the 2015 Porsche Cayenne and the 2016 Audi A6 Quattro, A7 Quattro, A8, A8L and Q5.

I do not see this as good news for shareholders at all?