Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

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Adam Wright
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#46 Post by Adam Wright » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:21 am

One sold on BAT the other day for $20,000

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965- ... 2-coupe-4/
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#47 Post by Adam Wright » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:00 am

This will probably be a record, just shy of $80,000!

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds ... id=2231690
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#48 Post by C J Murray » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:04 am

Wrong top dash pad. Wrong carpet.

You 912 experts...when did Porsche offer 5 gauges as an option? I thought that started a little later AND it's not on the CoA.

Four speed or five speed, how are you supposed to verify that on this car?
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#49 Post by Greg Bryan » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:21 pm

C J Murray wrote:Wrong top dash pad. Wrong carpet.

You 912 experts...when did Porsche offer 5 gauges as an option? I thought that started a little later AND it's not on the CoA.

Four speed or five speed, how are you supposed to verify that on this car?
I'm not a 912 expert, but I drove a '68 for over 20 years and recently bought a 65/66. My current one is 350686 (35x,xxx VINs are built at the Porsche factory - 45x,xxx VINs are Karmann) and built at the end of August '65. I don't know for a fact when it started, but I believe the 5-gauge option was always available (at least at the Porsche factory), but the 4th gauge (on the left) was an outside temp gauge, and the 5th gauge is a clock, of course. The early 5 gauge cars have a combo gauge like the 3-gauge cars with the oil temp and fuel in the same gauge like a 356. I don't know when the switch to the later type 5 gauge setup started, maybe during the '66 model year.
By '67 model year, I believe all US 912s were 5 gauge, but the 3rd gauge is oil temp with oil pressure light and generator light, and the 'hand brake on' light on the bottom, 4th gauge is fuel with a large low fuel light and 5th gauge the clock.
My 912 has the flat black painted dash and the brushed aluminum deco strip. It also has 5 gauges, but appear to be added later as they are '67 style and the 4th and 5th holes are cut out and not flanged like the other three. Someone could have updated my car back in the day to the new, cool flat black look - who knows … I'm not casting aspersions, but there now appears to be only 2,000 of the original 500 (or 1500) painted dash cars left on the road today.
Maybe the painted dash was primarily a Karmann factory thing only? 912 Owner's Manual Edition III/65 has pictures of 912 350,001 which appears to have a painted dash but is black and white photo.
On the 4 speed or 5 speed - I think the 5 speed would show up on the CoA as an option.
The 912 Registry site has quite a bit on the early 912s.
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#50 Post by C J Murray » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:16 pm

Thanks Greg. My father was supposed to pick up his 4th new Porsche at the factory in June 1965. He had never picked up a car at the factory and was excited to order a new SC Cabriolet in Irish green with black interior, his first Cabriolet and first trip to Europe since he was there with the Boy Scouts just before WW2. Shortly before my parents were to leave for Europe Porsche informed the dealer in Wilmington DE, a personal friend of my father's, that they would not be able to supply the Cabriolet. They offered to put him at the front of the list for a new 912 but that even that car would not be built in time so he had to order a new VW Bug which they picked up in Amsterdam. He was extremely disappointed but hoped that he would like the 912 and that everything would work out ok. The 912 arrived shortly after they returned from Europe and was the first one that our dealer or any of the local PCA members had ever seen. It was quite a novelty for some number of months. Unfortunately it was a poor substitute for an SC Cabriolet and he never really liked the car. A couple of years later he sold it to a man in NE PA named Cooper, as in the father of Registry members Harry and Bill Cooper, also father-in-law of Trustee Debbie Cooper. As Disney says, it's a small world.

Oh yeah, the car, it was Irish green/black with a painted dash, 3 gauges, and 5-speed. I can't remember all the details exactly but it was basically very much like a 356 in the details like square weave and rubber floor mats. There was a picture of the car in Panorama with my mother and father standing on either side of the car after winning the Parade rally.

Various friends of my parents bought 912s shortly after but my memory of those cars were black dash/aluminum strip cars but still with the early 912 script. I think the majority had 3 gauges. I almost think I didn't see 5 gauges until 1967 but that must be wrong. I would think the 912 experts would know when the various options appeared.

My memory is always open to question/scrutiny so take things for what they are worth but I was a very enthusiastic adolescent observer. From 1959 to 1970 my father was a hard core Porsche guy that rallied and attended many PCA events while I tagged along. I often went to the dealer when his cars were serviced. I was probably a pain in the ass there by poking around and drooling on the cars. I loved that place, a small garage in an urban neighborhood with just one overhead door and room to work on maybe 6 cars. It was in a line of row houses and had 1 large window where 1 new car could be parked. The parts room was upstairs along with the office. It was so exciting to see the cars, the stuff, and the mechanics working. That place changed my life.

Oops, off subject again, I've forgotten my point but I'm sticking to the story until I am inevitably proven not 100% correct.
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#51 Post by Sebastian Gaeta » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:08 pm

Hmmm. A friend of mine just looked at a '65 912 that Bill has in Florida right now and sent me a picture of it. It's Irish Green....
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#52 Post by C J Murray » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:24 pm

It gets confusing with the Coopers. Harry, in NE PA has a very nice Irish green 912 that is later. That car could be at Bill's in FL. Harry had talked about selling it at Amelia Island. Then again Bill has at least one 912. The one their father bought from my father was traded in on a new Sand beige 1967 911S not long after he bought it. Harry is now restoring a Devin Porsche that he bought from me. He also built two 911 powered 356 outlaws.
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#53 Post by C J Murray » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:26 pm

I think Bill's 912 has a sunroof.
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#54 Post by Sebastian Gaeta » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:49 pm

C J Murray wrote:I think Bill's 912 has a sunroof.

I just looked at the picture again and it does.
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'65 C coupe
'64 C cab
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2001 996 C4
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1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#55 Post by C J Murray » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:35 pm

Bill Block sent me this info and I don't think he would mind if I share.
'64 - '66 912s = 3 holes
Option of 5 holes available with clock in right small hole and combination
gauge of ammeter/oil pressure in the left
'67 912 = 5 holes with gas level in left small gauge with gas warning
light, oil temp and hand brake warning lamp in mid sized (356 size) gauge
to left of tach, in middle big tach, next 356 speedo, on far right small
gauge with clock

I thought this was completely straight forward until I started writing.
Brett covers it in his 911-912 Authenticity book.
What I find interesting is the option for pre 1967 912s. I bet that is a VERY rare option. I don't know if I have ever seen a 912 with that. I also wonder when that option actually first made it onto a car. Since the 1967 and later cars had different 5 gauges I bet some owners of earlier than 1967 cars ignored the originality police and installed the more common 1967 gauges into their 3 gauge cars.

Now, would you like to argue about the originality of black paint under the rear grill of 900 cars? :shock: Carry on without me.
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#56 Post by Greg Bryan » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:35 pm

I received this reply from 912 historian in the German 912 Registry-Urzwolfer.
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#57 Post by C J Murray » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:51 am

Very good Greg! Obviously I was right to remember that 5 gauges seemed to be popular in 67, duh, they were standard! Now what remains are these cars with any combination of painted dash/early 912 script/pre-1967 supposedly equipped with 5 gauges. I believe(feeling, not fact, maybe, don't know) that pre-1967 cars with 5 gauges are extremely rare. Maybe the option was less rare in Europe if people there expected a clock or outside temp gauge. With the Alps, it would be helpful to know at what points of elevation the moisture might be ice. Just guessing there.

Greg, if you have a good relationship with experts I would love to know the answers to these questions...

When was the first 912 shipped for sale?

When did 912s start to be shipped to the USA?

When was the first 5 gauge option installed?

How popular was this option and in what markets was it popular?

Since I am asking a lot I will go ahead and ask something even tougher. What information could be gotten for a very early USA 912 in Irish green/black that was sold to Clifford J. Murray Jr of Devon PA through European Cars in Wilmington DE? I bet that the Coopers would be grateful also.

Thanks,
Cliff
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#58 Post by C J Murray » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:56 am

Does anybody here have an early script pre-1967 912 with the 5 gauge option with the gauges that were unique to that option?
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#59 Post by Greg Bryan » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:24 pm

This is from the US 912 Registry site …

Porsche introduced the 912 to the U.S. market at the New York Auto Show in September of 1965, but the model did not become widely available until early 1966. Through 1967 the 912 outsold the 911 by a margin of 2-to-1.

My Aug. '65 912 made its way to the US the way most other early 912s got here, with a US serviceman stationed in Germany whose name is on the Kardex - Lt. Donald R. Copeland of Dallas.
I believe the car was full German spec (heater, gauges, etc.) when new which would explain the installation of the later gauges when the car eventually made its way to the US.
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Re: Painted Dash 912, Porsche Dreams do come true

#60 Post by C J Murray » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:01 pm

My father's 912 arrived in the July 65 to September 65 range. He put 50k miles on it and sold it to Mr Cooper prior to his 1967 911S arriving early summer 1967. That is what my shaky memory believes. I will try to suck the Coopers into this conversation.
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