It is currently Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:56 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:22 am 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:58 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Vacaville, Ca
Attachment:
File comment: Some paint remains, Tires held air for 36 years.
IMG_0969.JPG
IMG_0969.JPG [ 2.17 MiB | Viewed 3312 times ]
Upon my discharge from the Army I used the separation money to purchase a 1961 356 notchback. It was 1969 and I was in love with the form of the 356. I drove it as a commuter to college and University for many years. My fiancé turned the main bearing on the day of our engagement party. I still married her. I learned a lot about VW and Porsche engines, just to keep her VW and my Porsche going. After appropriate machining, I repaired the engine and drove it until 1978 when the crank broke. I bought a new crank (still have it wrapped in cosmoline). The case had a crack in the oil journal above the rear or front (flywheel) crank seal and I was told to discard it as it wasn't repairable. I still have it. Probably can be repaired with modern welding techniques today. The car has a 59 S90 engine installed. I retired the car in 1980 as I started a business and a family and lost interest in the old ride. Parked in a barn, then a hangar then along side the house, always covered. I should be taken out and whipped as the old hunchback deteriorated even though it was pretty dry here in California's central valley. I got into aviation and built an RV-4 and also restored a 1930 2 door Model A sedan and a K1200gt cycle so I have kept my wrenching active over the years. I had to move the porsche from the side yard to install solar panels on the roof of our home. Once I got the car out in the open, the neighbors gathered around and marveled at the old hunchback. I fell in love with her all over again and now I am starting the assessment phase of a restoration project. I hope to get it to a rack and look at the metal floorboards and panels. It was repainted in 1975, by me, in my garage, over the stock white. I loved the new Porsche fjord blue, doesn't look too good now! I am considering a mechanical restoration as first phase, if the floor boards and body panels are good and little undercarriage repair is necessary. Then a systematic restoration of sheetmetal and paint by others. I would love to have some insight from you all who have restored one of these. I have been following the registry forums for several years and find it an invaluable resource. I have begun a inventory of parts that will need to be replaced and trim that was removed years ago. I have assembled every part to complete the project but some will need work or replacements. In it for the long haul.


Attachments:
File comment: This replacement motor has a lightweight flywheel and some wild cam. It was never as comfortable as the normal engine. Webers came later. the chrome metal came with the motor. I will remove this one and start a rebuild of the matching engine if the case is repairable.
IMG_0959.jpg
IMG_0959.jpg [ 1.48 MiB | Viewed 3312 times ]
File comment: My young nephews road back here years ago. It was quite a nice car, feeling guilty!
IMG_0966.JPG
IMG_0966.JPG [ 1.4 MiB | Viewed 3312 times ]
File comment: I am not interested in sitting in there, something bit me from here.
IMG_0967.JPG
IMG_0967.JPG [ 1.42 MiB | Viewed 3312 times ]
File comment: A bit dusty, have not begun to clean yet
IMG_0965.JPG
IMG_0965.JPG [ 1.15 MiB | Viewed 3312 times ]
IMG_0961.JPG
IMG_0961.JPG [ 1.01 MiB | Viewed 3312 times ]
File comment: i have the original hood trim. Most of body panels line up pretty good, even after having storage on top for years
IMG_0963.JPG
IMG_0963.JPG [ 1.73 MiB | Viewed 3312 times ]
File comment: Flaps Up, not too aerodynamic and the surface parasitic drag from the paint would probable ground the old girl regardless of speed.
IMG_0957.jpg
IMG_0957.jpg [ 2.06 MiB | Viewed 3312 times ]
File comment: This side isn't much better, a bit of surface rust a I removed all the primer back in 75 and applied my own. I was young and had a new paint gun.......
IMG_0973.JPG
IMG_0973.JPG [ 2.03 MiB | Viewed 3312 times ]
File comment: Pretty?
IMG_0970.JPG
IMG_0970.JPG [ 2.14 MiB | Viewed 3312 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:24 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 3196
Location: SW Los Angeles
I admire your committment, David! I, too, am in the process of restoring my car, a '63 B Karmann coupe. It's currently in the metal phase. I didn't think it was too bad, a few rust bubbles here and there but you never know until you strip the paint off. So far, new longitudinals, rocker panels and repairs to fenders, hood and replacing old, badly patched areas. I removed all the bits and pieces on and in the car and, like you, inventoried everything. Then, trips to the cad-plater, powder-coater, chrome shop, etc. i made sure I had the correct parts and, if possible, original ones. I had been gathering parts iver the years in oreparation for the restoration collecting original and/or NIS ones when I could. I had already done the mechanicals and the interior so most of that is o.k. I am freshening the transaxle (seals, adjustments, etc.) and having a spare 1720 engine built. The original engine is long gone, stolen circa 1973. It was replaced with a 912 case, 1883 cc engine which is also being checked out due to a detonation issue. I can't tell you how many bits and pieces I found I needed to replace after not only checking out my parts but comparing them to the parts manual. A big shout out "Thanks!" To Ed Rutherford of Klasse 356 for supplying new and when needed, used parts.

Keep us posted on your progress and holler out to us if you have any questions, need resources, etc.

_________________
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:17 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:58 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Vacaville, Ca
Thanks Mike. This project may be as big as my aircraft building, 8 years of labor, around 1200 hours. I am not sure that it might be cheaper to buy a built car and sell this one. The only problem is that the notchbacks are getting rare.... I may have trouble finding one in the first place. I appreciate the support that you and other listers are willing to give. I will be sure to keep you all informed of the progress.
David

_________________
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa
Vacaville Ca.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:03 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 3196
Location: SW Los Angeles
If you go to John Willhoit's web site, he has an excellent outline on the various requirements of a restoration and the hours required. It's a great resource.

You will need to determine what level you want to restore the car to: high level driver or concours.
I think that since you have owned this car for a very long time, you have an attachment to it. Hard to say how much you would get if you sold it vs. the cost of a restored car. Lots of decisions ahead of you: colors of paint and interior, improvements such as front disc brake conversion kit, dual circuit master cylinder, etc., etc.

We're here to help and offer support!

_________________
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:56 pm 
356 Fan

Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:35 pm
Posts: 777
I'm in the midst of my restoration in a B coupe. I just finished rebuilding the engine and have most of the bodywork done and am looking for a painter. I decided on a high level driver for my car. Depending on your time and money situation you might want to farm out the body work assuming you don't want to do it while you build the engine. So far it has taken me about a month and a half to do mine and that is counting everything from getting the machine work done to cleaning parts to getting the tins powder coated. Since have such a long history with this car it would make sense to keep it and restore it yourself. Best of luck whatever you decide.

_________________


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:17 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 3196
Location: SW Los Angeles
Dan is absolutely right. There are many facets to a restoration and as he points out, depending upon your budget and abilities, some you can do while you farm out others. Body and paint, engine/transaxle rebuilding, reconditioning brake drums, reconditioning/procurring parts, cad-plating, powder-coating, chroming, etc., etc. Some can be done at the same time as they will be going to different places.

Keep us posted, David.

_________________
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:40 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:58 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Vacaville, Ca
Just started yesterday, broke open the rear axle nut. Used map gas and 3/4 braking bar with 4 foot extension. It finally gave. Ordering brake parts, tranny boot and necessary items to make leakproof for now. I have decided to go ahead with the mechanical phase, making it a driver first. What a mess!!! Components actually look pretty good! It is nice having a whole car that I know did drive when last parked. Removes a bit of the mystery.

_________________
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa
Vacaville Ca.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:02 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:58 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Vacaville, Ca
I have removed brake assemblies on the left side. Nothing found out of normal. Will clean up and paint, new brakes. The drums measure to be within specs and the brake shoes look ok but seem a bit oily. I will see if they clean up. One major find. Upon draining of transmission fluid, there is some rather suspicious metal on the magnet. I have enclosed a picture of said materials after a cleanup in solvent. Being careful not to loose any fragments. I will see how the tranny shifts before making a move to remove and have rebuilt. Making some progress towards driving this old hunchback.


Attachments:
File comment: I don't know what to make of these metal pieces. Some filings but these long thin pieces make me think that some shims are being machined inside the tranny.
20150907_103730_001.jpg
20150907_103730_001.jpg [ 2.47 MiB | Viewed 3094 times ]
File comment: After removing the layer of old grease.
20150906_183940_001.jpg
20150906_183940_001.jpg [ 3.09 MiB | Viewed 3094 times ]
File comment: One little rusty area on the drivers floor. Otherwise sound! lucky to be in Ca.
20150905_165903_001.jpg
20150905_165903_001.jpg [ 2.76 MiB | Viewed 3094 times ]

_________________
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa
Vacaville Ca.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:38 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:42 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Barre, Vermont, USA
Tag: 1961 Karmann Notchback
You have a lot of wonderful history here with your car. I have the same connection with my car too.
And you are correct that there are so very few of these notchbacks left you will have a hard time replacing your car with a fully restored one at a favorable price.
It may take a while, and a lot of work but your car is already a family member. How can you replace that sentiment ?
Please check the notchback registry thread here and make sure your car is on the list, or add a note there and it will be added to the current list.

_________________

1961 356B T5 Karmann Hardtop #200279 Sports Coupe named "Carmine"


2nd & 4th Owner of this car 1970-73 found again on Ebay in 2013 & bought it back 128K miles


 



Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:01 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:58 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Vacaville, Ca
Thanks steve, i am making this a long term project, doing as much of the work as possible. It is great to recieve incouragement from others who have battled through their projects. My wife is very understanding. My aircraft build took eight years.

_________________
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa
Vacaville Ca.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:39 am 
356 Registry Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:02 pm
Posts: 6120
Location: SE Michigan
David; the bits on the trans magnet look like pinion depth shims. Not good.

_________________


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:26 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:58 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Vacaville, Ca
Thanks for the information Vic. I plan to get it running, find out what the transmission is doing, ie. popping out of gear, not shifting smoothly, making noise. Then I will take out and have rebuilt. Does anyone know of a comprehensive and competent rebuilder in northern ca. I have seen the one in Bend Ore. and Scottys in LA. I would like to keep it local if possible. Thanks again for your input. Also: should the axle be able to be pulled out easily, out from the trunion blocks? I have tested the axle snugness using a little pull. I made sure not to pull more than a few mms. Should'nt it be held in by something other than the bearing retainer? Maybe I wont drive it after all.

_________________
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa
Vacaville Ca.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:36 am 
356 Registry Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:02 pm
Posts: 6120
Location: SE Michigan
The wheel bearing and retainer are what hold the axle in.

_________________


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:12 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:58 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Vacaville, Ca
I wish I was closer to Michigan. I wonder what the shipping cost would be to get it out there to you.

_________________
61 Karmann Notchback 200831
67 Karman 912 461567
74 911 Targa
Vacaville Ca.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:34 am 
356 Registry Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:02 pm
Posts: 6120
Location: SE Michigan
Figure shipping around $300-350; depending. But you do have several qualified people in California that other people have recommended.

_________________


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group