6volt starter relay?

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Jim Alton
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#16 Post by Jim Alton »

Wolfsbürg West makes a kit: a 6V fused relay with a socket and wiring harness: Part # 111998611, HARD START RELAY, $ 38.00 https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/Deta ... =111998611.

Some of the relay kits sold by Porsche suppliers are stamped "Wolfsbürg West."
 
Jim Alton
Los Angeles County, CA
1958 Porsche 356A Cabriolet
1965 Porsche 911 Coupé
1966 Volkswagen Type 2
2003 Porsche 986 Boxster

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Charles H Jacobus
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#17 Post by Charles H Jacobus »

Looking forward to seeing schematic and pictures, Mark. When my engine is hot the starter has a difficult time turning the engine.

ChuckJ
Current:
2012 Silver 991
1995 Midnight blue 993
1965 Red 356C

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Fond memories of 14 others (including a '63 Normal and a 61 S90) :)

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Charles H Jacobus
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#18 Post by Charles H Jacobus »

Can someone confirm for me please that the '65 356C 6v does not have a relay setup. It seems really strange to me the later cars didn't include a relay.

Thanks

ChuckJ
Current:
2012 Silver 991
1995 Midnight blue 993
1965 Red 356C

Past:
Fond memories of 14 others (including a '63 Normal and a 61 S90) :)

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#19 Post by Doug McDonnell »

No starter relay from factory. Most common cause for hot start slow cranking is starter bushing. Replace and grease new one and it make solve that problem.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Charles H Jacobus
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#20 Post by Charles H Jacobus »

Thanks, Doug! Are there two and front or rear?

ChuckJ
Current:
2012 Silver 991
1995 Midnight blue 993
1965 Red 356C

Past:
Fond memories of 14 others (including a '63 Normal and a 61 S90) :)

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#21 Post by Doug McDonnell »

No only one. Currently 2 different ones are available. One bronze http://www.stoddard.com/64409401-nla.html one sintered metal. I know Vic Skirmants uses the sintered metal one http://www.stoddard.com/64409401-644-09-401.html when he rebuilds transmissions.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Dave Wildrick
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#22 Post by Dave Wildrick »

Charles H Jacobus wrote:Thanks, Doug! Are there two and front or rear?

ChuckJ
There is only one starter bushing--in the transmission housing.

Only one starter relay is necessary, and it can be installed either at the ignition switch (front) or at the starter solenoid (rear).
Dave Wildrick
Houston, TX
#10230
64C coupe
65C coupe

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#23 Post by Doug McDonnell »

1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

Hugo Karasawa
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#24 Post by Hugo Karasawa »

Check this page, and click for the powerpoint presentation. He gives instructions on how to connect this relay.
http://www.lockandkeyid.com/surestartrelay

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Sebastian Gaeta
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#25 Post by Sebastian Gaeta »

Dave Wildrick wrote:Only one starter relay is necessary, and it can be installed either at the ignition switch (front) or at the starter solenoid (rear).

Dave,

As I understand it the two different relays you describe work a bit differently from each other. The one at the starter switch is only a "switch saver" and does not route all the power directly to the starter, just through that relay and away from the starter switch. The one at the starter directs all the power to the starter and also bypasses the switch so is the better choice of the two in my opinion. The advantage of the switch saver relay is that it's super easy to install from inside the car. The one at the starter has to be installed from underneath the car.
Sebastian Gaeta
www.arbormotion.com

Registry #8339

'65 C coupe
'64 C cab

-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle

Brad Ripley
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#26 Post by Brad Ripley »

Buy a new ignition switch.

Hugo Karasawa
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#27 Post by Hugo Karasawa »

Sebastian,
Great explanation.
Thanks

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Dave Wildrick
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#28 Post by Dave Wildrick »

Sebastian Gaeta wrote:
Dave Wildrick wrote:Only one starter relay is necessary, and it can be installed either at the ignition switch (front) or at the starter solenoid (rear).

Dave,

As I understand it the two different relays you describe work a bit differently from each other. The one at the starter switch is only a "switch saver" and does not route all the power directly to the starter, just through that relay and away from the starter switch. The one at the starter directs all the power to the starter and also bypasses the switch so is the better choice of the two in my opinion. The advantage of the switch saver relay is that it's super easy to install from inside the car. The one at the starter has to be installed from underneath the car.
Sebastian,
Joe Leoni’s hard start relay and Tony Euganeo’s sure start relay are the same, and they do the same thing, i.e., protect the ignition switch. It doesn’t matter whether you install the relay next to the ignition switch (Tony’s) or near the starter (Joe’s). They both are passing current down the #50 wire to the starter solenoid terminal. The relay, when located in either position, receives the juice when the ignition key is operated and is triggered to send juice down the #50 wire to the starter solenoid terminal—instead of the juice coming directly from the ignition switch terminal #50 to this starter solenoid terminal.
The Powerpoint diagram on Tony Euganeo’s web site makes this clear (http://www.lockandkeyid.com/surestartrelay).

Also, here is a recent post from Mark Penta, explaining how he wired his own relay at the ignition switch.
[Post subject: Re: 6volt starter relay?
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:41 pm
Mark Penta--356 Fan
I just did this on my car yesterday, I installed my relay under dash near ignition switch. I installed the relay simply to pass less current through the switch, not too concerned about the 14AWG running to solenoid. I prefer this location since it is easy to access (especially in the event of a problem such as welded contacts!), and to keep the relay out of the elements.
I had to make two bullet connectors from a heavy duty trailer hitch plug that I sacrificed. You will need to make at least one wire with a bullet connector that fits securely into switch.
How to relay the starter solenoid at ign switch:
On Ign switch:
30: common power - plug a 14AWG wire with bullet connector into switch and connect to terminal 30 (common) on relay.
50: This wire originally goes from switch to starter solenoid, it will now be removed from switch and connect to terminal 87 (N.O.) on relay (this wire will now go from relay to Solenoid, instead of switch to solenoid).
Run a new wire from terminal 50 on switch to terminal 85 on relay (key switch power to energize relay)
Run a ground wire from terminal 86 on relay to ground (I used a ring terminal and attached to thumb screw for gauge).
I can make a schematic but it will have to wait.
Mark]
Dave Wildrick
Houston, TX
#10230
64C coupe
65C coupe

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John Hearn
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#29 Post by John Hearn »

Every 356 starter has a "relay" it's called the solenoid......
KTF
John

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Sebastian Gaeta
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Re: 6volt starter relay?

#30 Post by Sebastian Gaeta »

Dave Wildrick wrote: Sebastian,
Joe Leoni’s hard start relay and Tony Euganeo’s sure start relay are the same, and they do the same thing, i.e., protect the ignition switch.
Dave,

I knew I could count on you for the truth. I was always told they worked the way I (incorrectly) described. So glad to hear they do the same thing because now I will just go with the switch at the dash for ease of installation and service.
Sebastian Gaeta
www.arbormotion.com

Registry #8339

'65 C coupe
'64 C cab

-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle

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