The Official 356Talk Forum

Upon my discharge from the Army I used the separation money to purchase a 1961 356 notchback. It was 1969 and I was in love with the form of the 356. I drove it as a commuter to college and University for many years. My fiancé turned the main bearing on the day of our engagement party. I still married her. I learned a lot about VW and Porsche engines, just to keep her VW and my Porsche going. After appropriate machining, I repaired the engine and drove it until 1978 when the crank broke. I bought a new crank (still have it wrapped in cosmoline). The case had a crack in the oil journal above the rear or front (flywheel) crank seal and I was told to discard it as it wasn't repairable. I still have it. Probably can be repaired with modern welding techniques today. The car has a 59 S90 engine installed. I retired the car in 1980 as I started a business and a family and lost interest in the old ride. Parked in a barn, then a hangar then along side the house, always covered. I should be taken out and whipped as the old hunchback deteriorated even though it was pretty dry here in California's central valley. I got into aviation and built an RV-4 and also restored a 1930 2 door Model A sedan and a K1200gt cycle so I have kept my wrenching active over the years. I had to move the porsche from the side yard to install solar panels on the roof of our home. Once I got the car out in the open, the neighbors gathered around and marveled at the old hunchback. I fell in love with her all over again and now I am starting the assessment phase of a restoration project. I hope to get it to a rack and look at the metal floorboards and panels. It was repainted in 1975, by me, in my garage, over the stock white. I loved the new Porsche fjord blue, doesn't look too good now! I am considering a mechanical restoration as first phase, if the floor boards and body panels are good and little undercarriage repair is necessary. Then a systematic restoration of sheetmetal and paint by others. I would love to have some insight from you all who have restored one of these. I have been following the registry forums for several years and find it an invaluable resource. I have begun a inventory of parts that will need to be replaced and trim that was removed years ago. I have assembled every part to complete the project but some will need work or replacements. In it for the long haul.

I admire your committment, David! I, too, am in the process of restoring my car, a '63 B Karmann coupe. It's currently in the metal phase. I didn't think it was too bad, a few rust bubbles here and there but you never know until you strip the paint off. So far, new longitudinals, rocker panels and repairs to fenders, hood and replacing old, badly patched areas. I removed all the bits and pieces on and in the car and, like you, inventoried everything. Then, trips to the cad-plater, powder-coater, chrome shop, etc. I made sure I had the correct parts and, if possible, original ones. I had been gathering parts over the years in preparation for the restoration collecting original and/or NOS ones when I could. I had already done the mechanicals and the interior so most of that is o.k. I am freshening the transaxle (seals, adjustments, etc.) and having a spare 1720 engine built. The original engine is long gone, stolen circa 1973. It was replaced with a 912 case, 1883 cc engine which is also being checked out due to a detonation issue. I can't tell you how many bits and pieces I found I needed to replace after not only checking out my parts but comparing them to the parts manual. A big shout out "Thanks!" To Ed Rutherford of Klasse 356 for supplying new and when needed, used parts.

Keep us posted on your progress and holler out to us if you have any questions, need resources, etc.

Thanks Mike. This project may be as big as my aircraft building, 8 years of labor, around 1200 hours. I am not sure that it might be cheaper to buy a built car and sell this one. The only problem is that the notchbacks are getting rare.... I may have trouble finding one in the first place. I appreciate the support that you and other listers are willing to give. I will be sure to keep you all informed of the progress.
David

If you go to John Willhoit's web site, he has an excellent outline on the various requirements of a restoration and the hours required. It's a great resource.

You will need to determine what level you want to restore the car to: high level driver or concours.
I think that since you have owned this car for a very long time, you have an attachment to it. Hard to say how much you would get if you sold it vs. the cost of a restored car. Lots of decisions ahead of you: colors of paint and interior, improvements such as front disc brake conversion kit, dual circuit master cylinder, etc., etc.

We're here to help and offer support!

I'm in the midst of my restoration in a B coupe. I just finished rebuilding the engine and have most of the bodywork done and am looking for a painter. I decided on a high level driver for my car. Depending on your time and money situation you might want to farm out the body work assuming you don't want to do it while you build the engine. So far it has taken me about a month and a half to do mine and that is counting everything from getting the machine work done to cleaning parts to getting the tins powder coated. Since have such a long history with this car it would make sense to keep it and restore it yourself. Best of luck whatever you decide.

Dan is absolutely right. There are many facets to a restoration and as he points out, depending upon your budget and abilities, some you can do while you farm out others. Body and paint, engine/transaxle rebuilding, reconditioning brake drums, reconditioning/procurring parts, cad-plating, powder-coating, chroming, etc., etc. Some can be done at the same time as they will be going to different places.

Keep us posted, David.

Just started yesterday, broke open the rear axle nut. Used map gas and 3/4 braking bar with 4 foot extension. It finally gave. Ordering brake parts, tranny boot and necessary items to make leakproof for now. I have decided to go ahead with the mechanical phase, making it a driver first. What a mess!!! Components actually look pretty good! It is nice having a whole car that I know did drive when last parked. Removes a bit of the mystery.

I have removed brake assemblies on the left side. Nothing found out of normal. Will clean up and paint, new brakes. The drums measure to be within specs and the brake shoes look ok but seem a bit oily. I will see if they clean up. One major find. Upon draining of transmission fluid, there is some rather suspicious metal on the magnet. I have enclosed a picture of said materials after a cleanup in solvent. Being careful not to loose any fragments. I will see how the tranny shifts before making a move to remove and have rebuilt. Making some progress towards driving this old hunchback.

You have a lot of wonderful history here with your car. I have the same connection with my car too.
And you are correct that there are so very few of these notchbacks left you will have a hard time replacing your car with a fully restored one at a favorable price.
It may take a while, and a lot of work but your car is already a family member. How can you replace that sentiment ?
Please check the notchback registry thread here and make sure your car is on the list, or add a note there and it will be added to the current list.

Thanks steve, i am making this a long term project, doing as much of the work as possible. It is great to recieve incouragement from others who have battled through their projects. My wife is very understanding. My aircraft build took eight years.

David; the bits on the trans magnet look like pinion depth shims. Not good.

Thanks for the information Vic. I plan to get it running, find out what the transmission is doing, ie. popping out of gear, not shifting smoothly, making noise. Then I will take out and have rebuilt. Does anyone know of a comprehensive and competent rebuilder in northern ca. I have seen the one in Bend Ore. and Scottys in LA. I would like to keep it local if possible. Thanks again for your input. Also: should the axle be able to be pulled out easily, out from the trunion blocks? I have tested the axle snugness using a little pull. I made sure not to pull more than a few mms. Should'nt it be held in by something other than the bearing retainer? Maybe I wont drive it after all.

The wheel bearing and retainer are what hold the axle in.

I wish I was closer to Michigan. I wonder what the shipping cost would be to get it out there to you.

Figure shipping around $300-350; depending. But you do have several qualified people in California that other people have recommended.