WCSTA -26- 57 A Coupe, #58013 Some cosmetic work needed!

Share progress on your 356 related project or full restoration with others!
Post Reply
Message
Author
Philip Bernard
356 Fan
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 10:18 am

WCSTA -26- 57 A Coupe, #58013 Some cosmetic work needed!

#1 Post by Philip Bernard »

My good side.JPG
eggwell.png
political reasoning.png
Optional -short driver- steering wheel.jpg
Origami.png
drivers side.png
abrupt stop.png
just a tad shorter.png
Why 58013 has been considered a candidate for repair up to this point and how events conspired to drop it all in my lap are questions that may never be answered.
This 57 Coupe was parked abruptly sometime in 1961 and hasn’t moved a foot under her own power since (although it has seen much of the countryside travelling thru a half dozen states while following our family trucks on multiple moves in both directions, eventually settling in Massachusetts).
The abrupt end of duty is evidenced by the attached examples of early 356 origami but the who, when and how is a mystery. In 1961 Pat Tobin passed the coupe along to my father in law Frank who promptly tucked it away for a short slumber with the assumption he’d soon have the time to put the car back into proper order. When Frank passed away some years ago it fell to my wife and I to bring her back to life. Why Pat and Frank believed it was worth saving at that point in 1961 is beyond me and there are some that would question the sanity of rebuilding a car so well rearranged even at today’s values. In addition to the car being as distorted as a politicians reasoning there is of course the optional tinworm (the value package) which was so conveniently provided for right on the factory floor. Has there ever been one built without that as a standard feature? Fortunately the car is still complete and in fact hasn’t been touched in the 54 years it first travelled east from California.
Last year I sent some questions to Pat Tobin concerning the history of 58013. The car had the optional driving lights (currently nonfunctional, quite possibly a short), the gauges were metric and it had a custom steering wheel for those of us whom are vertically challenged (aftermarket I believe). I wondered, did he had any info on the original owner? Picked up in Germany prior to importation? Did he know the circumstances of the crash and why did he end up with the car? How did he meet my father in law? Frank was an engineer but designed heavy equipment at the time. Road America, Mid-Ohio? Frank was known to frequent both. When I received no response as well as did other long time registry members in their quest to contact him for me I feared the worst. A year later now knowing that he indeed did pass away I’m sure all his old friends are missing his knowledge as well as remembering years of 356 comradery. I’ve lost a potential wealth of information on the car but more importantly if only I could have let him know that he’s responsible for the car still existing and that it was just about to be prepared for some old time medieval torture!!
Timing is everything and in this case even more since she was prepped just last month and as of April 11th she’s in good company with a cabriolet and an early pre A. They were in for skin grafts, one major and one minor and now well along the way to recovery. We looked into silicone and Botox but doubt they alone will cover it. Some panels from Stoddard NLA sure would go a long way towards putting a smile on Pat and Franks faces, not to mention the savings would probably save me from selling our house too.
She still runs and work starts the first week of MAY!!!!!

Philip Bernard
356 Fan
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 10:18 am

Re: WCSTA -26- 57 A Coupe, #58013 Some cosmetic work needed!

#2 Post by Philip Bernard »

56/7 A the story continues
Like any other good 356 story there’s a lot more to be found behind the touch up paint, sometimes its lead, sometimes whatever handy hardens, a tin can, some sort of plastic netting, I can only imagine what has been used over the years to plug holes. So far it’s the story of 58013 that has a lot of unknowns.
One known fact is the purchase price, the princely sum of $175.00
How Pat Tobin acquired 013 is yet to be determined, how he pointed it in Frank’s direction is unknown as well. Since passing last year his daughter Janice and a well-known Registry member who has always put in unseen effort are going thru all Pats old documents, parts and cars to sort things out. I’m anxiously awaiting any information on 013.
What has been established is that Pat at same the time owned another 356 that was only six digits away from 013.

Garage mates?
Pats 007 reg.jpg
Not yet confirmed as 013 But Pats daughter Janice did mention in an e-mail that there was a bit of an incident, in her words,

Dad spoke many times of an accident that occurred in Hollywood, where he worked. There was a resulting court case and he was always a bit resentful that the judge believed he caused the accident, rather than the little old lady that was also involved. That may very well have resulted in the damage you observed. Dad did suffer a few minor injuries, but nothing serious.
Was this 013??? Somebody sure had sore ribs!!!


I do know that there is another party in the mix in Madison, Wisconsin but don’t have the whole story, Mr. Keesey are you out there??? What part did you play?
Was Road America where the transaction originated?
Road America pass.jpg

Along the way Frank collected a couple more 356’s to raid for parts. One was sold off prior to his last move between Ohio and Wisconsin but the other car (100859, provided by a Mr. French for the grand sum of $25), or more accurately what’s left of it will serve use as a measurement tool, maybe the front tube section and possibly some sheet sections for patching.
IMG_2353.JPG
IMG_2367.JPG
(Stoddard you’re not off the hook yet)

Note the left side repair work! That's taking your life in gods hands!

Although the greater damage to 013 is the artwork shown earlier there is going to be the usual aftermarket vent repair work, full amount TBD.
pet access door.JPG
probably not good.JPG

We also know that there’ll be a lot of panels needed and help will be welcome. Trips to Stoddard will be frequent and I’m hoping I can leave my wallet at home. But there’s still a lot I’ll have to source from other Porsche folks.
Anybody got a good Passenger door?
That’s gonna whistle!
that's gonna cause a whistle.JPG
Front hood maybe?
Please!!.JPG

Adam? I can bring the van in September!

Well that’s some of the info I’ve gathered. If I can scrounge up some time in the next few days I’ll follow up with a post including more of the good, more of the bad and the truly ugly. As well as more photos pointing out the obvious.
Last edited by Philip Bernard on Fri May 01, 2015 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Philip Bernard
356 Fan
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 10:18 am

Re: WCSTA -26- 57 A Coupe, #58013 Some cosmetic work needed!

#3 Post by Philip Bernard »

The path to renewal.

Late this winter while under a brief New England dusting of snow my wife and I stripped out the front end in preparation of 013 heading out to get pulled, the offending bits cut off and pulled again prior to a soft sandblast. We’re feeling pretty lucky to get in the queue at a shop that has a bit of a waiting list and an old school mentality. A true car guy that loves anything (almost) metal Rick has restored or built from raw stock airplane parts, structural artwork and any number of exotic engine parts. In his late 1800's shop he’s formed cars to concours level and built others from scratch, pre-war to modern, all original to rod and race. Rick's talent has brought a few Tubs back from the dead and his work shows his expertise, or in the case of rebuilding a tub to originality, hiding it. At the moment he’s rebuilding a Pre A that didn’t have enough metal left to pick up with a magnet. (My personal goal for him is to deal with our passenger side foot well which in two places inverted perfectly 6-8 inches into the cabin upon impact)

I’ve attached a shot of the magic door to walk thru and a couple of photos of a local club member’s car that went from bent up to beautiful. In a future post I’ll include a complete description of what’s behind the green door and some photos of the Bent window in progress if permission is granted.
The magic door.jpg
BR (before Rick).jpg
AR (after Rick).jpg
Like any other car that has been hard hit the body shows small stress buckling in more than one area. The cowl is toast, the front end is not only pushed in but also 4-5 inches to the right. There are signs of stress along the dash to cowl welds, the dash is pushed in by the lower mounting strut and there’s a nice dimple just above the passenger side wing window. I see a new sign of stress every time I look at the car. Thinking of that maybe we’ll get the car painted like the 1934 gold certificate with Woodrow Wilson, it’s about the right number, not that coming up with restoration dollars creates any stress. (BTW if you see an old guy at the bank with cute legs, a short skirt, a wig and a beard IT'S NOT ME!!)

I’ve also attached a few other photos of the buckled pan, folded cowl, the inverted foot well (look hard), crooked nose and this, an aerial shot so everyone can guess what kind of tree it hit.
Deciduous or Evergreen.JPG
Buckled pan.JPG
take me to Road America.jpg
ok maybe the drivers side is a bit off.JPG
Inverted footwell double rainbow.png
And one of the engine compartment after a fifty four year slumber. The engine has been run periodically but obviously should be gone thru completely.
Quiet please!.JPG

Look for more info in the next post!
Last edited by Philip Bernard on Mon May 04, 2015 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 

Philip Bernard
356 Fan
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 10:18 am

Re: WCSTA -26- 57 A Coupe, #58013 Some cosmetic work needed!

#4 Post by Philip Bernard »

After six years of planning the day has come.
As previously mentioned 013 was purchased by my father in law more than 50 years ago, photos of that day arrived this weekend. Dragged on the trailer on a fine spring day I doubt the new owner had any idea how long it would be before 013 would see proper attention and word is that the last person driving it was happy to see it go.
Damn snow.png
Loading the A.png
Now we’re ready to begin the restoration.
In addition to setting aside money on a regular basis for the last five years my wife has also started a business making and selling all natural soaps in local gift shops and natural food stores. Not a lot of money but a little more towards the car fund (she was already working 50+ hours per week but I can’t slow her down). Nobody expects this to be cheap and there was no point in starting until we could go for it. We’ll be able to save a good chunk by doing the dirty and tedious work but getting the measurements right and proper panel work is best left to someone who is actually good at it. I can glue metal together and make grapes just fine but would like the curves to be on purpose and as intended.

During the past six years while setting aside cash we’ve followed Franks lead and bought a couple of other trashed 356’s to glean for parts needed and to learn a bit more about how they’re put together. The barn now has a nice pile of spares waiting patiently for refurbishment.
IMG_2356.JPG
Please notice the number assigned the photo, karma????

Our first donor, a 1964 C was entombed for the same reason as the A.
lr.jpg
Mentioned with little in the way of solid facts or information the C was offered up to me by a relative. In his mid-fifties and barely managing to make it to work regularly via bicycle I’m thinking he’s had one too many cocktails (family.... love them anyway). After a few minutes of talking with him it’s all sounding possible so three days later we’re hooking up the trailer and headed in to Boston. Sure enough there she is under a pile of crap and a failing garage roof. After much jacking, blocking, skidding, blood and swearing with the car now halfway on the trailer we notice that a bit of a racket ensues out front. Turns out the car isn't really his to give but simply in his way while he patches the roof. After calming down the resident of the adjacent house as well as making a few phone calls to track down the property owner an agreement is in place to send $500 for groceries to the property owner’s concerned relative and the car is mine. Lesson learned, don't give up, just because you’re dealing with a couple of goofballs doesn’t mean it won’t turn out to be a productive conversation.
Knowing we didn’t have the cash to restore two tubs at one time sadly we had to let this one go as well as an earlier T-6 shell I had picked up to complete the C with. Fortunately they both went to a good home and the C has already been cleaned, dressed up and awaiting a new owner looking to complete a potentially beautiful Bali Blue coupe (two saved).
With our piles of scavenged spare parts and fresh checkbook in hand it’s finally time. The car is at the shop where most of the work will be performed, Rick and Del have time on the horizon to make panels that aren’t available and we’re actively searching out the right person for paint.

Within the next two months we hope to put the car on a rack then make a few pulls to bring her back enough to reassess. We’ll also pull the driving lights, steering box and the harness sections that couldn’t be removed due to the shape and start removing the fenders and nose section. Sometime in the next two weeks we hope to receive some documented information on the cars earlier days. More to celebrate and share!
 

Philip Bernard
356 Fan
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 10:18 am

Re: WCSTA -26- 57 A Coupe, #58013 Some cosmetic work needed!

#5 Post by Philip Bernard »

It runs in the family

As some of you may be headed over the crest like me (fast enough to catch a bit too much air) you should be able to appreciate the anticipation I’m feeling now that 013 has finally gone to the shop. My father in law towed the car from Madison WI to Racine WI, to Bainbridge Ohio where it sat in his barn only 14.7 miles from Stoddard for forty years until it was trailered back to Wisconsin. While working as a mechanical engineer in Ohio for Euclid, Terex and finally GM how many times did he swing by Stoddard on his way home from work? Did he price out parts? How many parts NLA should he have squirreled away? Did he know any of the Stoddard employees? Just 20 minutes and eight turns away! He piled the family in the car and attended and volunteered at the track summer after summer. How many 356 drivers did he look to for information while there?
RsH Shelby OH.jpg
As with many of you family came first and the tub sat waiting patiently in the garage, acting simply as a butt rest while rebuilding countless lawnmower carbs on the bench. He had no problem shelling out the $16.00 for a title for the little Porsche but family came first and the car was to wait.
013 title.jpg
All this time while putting his own dream to the side he fostered a love for automobiles in his children, he, delighted every time he drove by the junkyard while getting just a few more miles out of a car that should have long been retired. The family has grown to a number of car nuts and I’m fortunate enough to have married an “enabler” who can purchase another car needed or not every bit as well as I can. The restoration once done will be passed along to the next generation, a generation that has already proven the need for more cars than one could drive at any given time. Every neighborhood has a house with one or more cars that catch the eye. Many don’t understand the draw and some even think that we’re collecting a bunch of unsightly junk. How misunderstood, how sad! How much of life they’re missing by not recognizing the rare gem that we see as a parts car! Juggling plates, putting cars to bed for the winter to escape the dreaded salt truck, looking longingly out the window for the first sign of clear tarmac. The smell of avgas at the track!!! It’s time to get this little car back on the road so it can participate in the festivities, run with its crowd.
I spent some time this am in the shop, taking a few more photos for reference and planning cuts. I also took a shot of the bent window that will be her company at night for the next year and the equipment that will shape 013’s resurrection. And most importantly for me a small sign of how her nose will look shortly.
P1010191.JPG
P1010190.JPG
P1010194.JPG
The last photo is a hole created to free up the fuel tank shortly after the accident, all I see is a window to the future.
P1010180.JPG
 

Philip Bernard
356 Fan
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 10:18 am

Re: WCSTA -26- 57 A Coupe, #58013 Some cosmetic work needed!

#6 Post by Philip Bernard »

May 12 2015 and more info arrives!

I received a note today with a bit more information on the possible Pat Tobin 58013 connection as well as a copy of a note written years ago by Pat himself concerning the wrecked car. It seems that as with many cases documentation is not always right. Knowing not all added up completely I kept digging and keeping an open mind. Two things came to light, one tidbit in todays note and one in a 2002 copy of the Registry magazine. In Janice's letter she stated that the A Coupe had at one time towed a trailer. There's no evidence of a trailer hitch on our car. And in the 2002 Pat Tobin article the photo of the 56A, his car (58007) is a very dark color, ours is Sahara beige. Janice also stated that Pat bought the Coupe new. Since the Kardex mentions that the car was handed over to one of the first companies in Germany to cold roll steel for automotive use those three facts would negate the information found in an online 356 database. The only things that do come up in agreement would be that both cars suffered the exact same fate at the exact same time with the same resulting damage. Perhaps that's the only link to the information listed in the database that I found, but where's 007? So now I've got more goals, find and correct the database stumbled upon (any leads would be appreciated, this was a serial number database with some owner and history info), and find the 56A coupe 58007. I'd also like to know more about the Dusseldorf Porsche dealer that handled the car, are they still in business, do they have early records? There's little information on the Grafenberger Walzwerk steel mill Porsche connection in the 50's and I'm left to ponder why Porsche would send them over a tarted up A coupe. 013 was equipped with body mounted fog lights, chrome wheels, white wall tires, an extended steering column, glove mounted clock and a map light that plugs in under the dash on the drivers side, not loaded but not stripped down either. There are also two notations in the warranty section by someone other than the delivery "handler" and prior to any mileage being run up. Not to mention that I've still got four years and a trip from Europe to the US to account for. Anything ring a bell??????
 

User avatar
Adam Wright
Classifieds Monitor
Posts: 10304
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:00 am
Tag: KTF

Re: WCSTA -26- 57 A Coupe, #58013 Some cosmetic work needed!

#7 Post by Adam Wright »

Readers of my column will remember my last trip to PJ's place when my trailer axle broke on the way. He was very cool lending me his grinder and welder to fix the trailer in his driveway, a true Registry brother if there ever was one. I hope he get some votes!
Attachments
photo 3.JPG
www.unobtanium-inc.com
Check out my Barn Find column in the Registry magazine, always looking for good stories.

steverestelli
356 Fan
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:42 pm
Tag: 1961 Karmann Notchback
Location: Barre, Vermont, USA
Contact:

Re: WCSTA -26- 57 A Coupe, #58013 Some cosmetic work needed!

#8 Post by steverestelli »

I liked the story behind the car, and being a typ356ne member.....well, I just couldn't resist casting my vote here as well!
Good luck PJ, hope you make the cut. This project is long overdue!
1961 356B T5 Karmann Hardtop #200279 Sports Coupe named "Carmine"
2nd & 4th Owner of this car 1970-73 found again on Ebay in 2013 & bought it back 128K miles
 

Post Reply