Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

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Bart Elsen
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Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#1 Post by Bart Elsen »

Hi all

I am busy with my restoration of my 356 A from 1959.

After all the metalwork (car is ready to go to the painter), it's time now to deal with the transmission

I noticed with draining the oil, that the oil was quite viscous at last so I expect the worst :?:

The car was not running when I bought it, so I don't know the condition of the transmission.

Does anyone have a DIY or a rebuild thread where I can find more info especially for a 716 transmission?

I think it is wise to replace all seals and bearings anyway

Any help is welcome (did already a search here at the forum)

Grts
Bart

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Jim Clement
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#2 Post by Jim Clement »

Take it out of the car and send it to Jack Morris or Vic, who ever is closer.
 

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Jason Laster
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#3 Post by Jason Laster »

Bart wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:25 pm I noticed with draining the oil, that the oil was quite viscous at last so I expect the worst :?:
I'm not quite sure I understand this sentence, but I think you are noting that the gear oil out of the transmission is very thick. If that is indeed what you intended, that is as expected. Gear oil used in the transaxles is very thick. Doesn't mean it's not worth a rebuild, just making sure about oil.
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Bart Elsen
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#4 Post by Bart Elsen »

Hi Jason

Sorry for my bad english

The oil was quite dark brown first... then when almost everything was out it got dark grey and very sludge...
So not a good sign....

Transmission is already out of the car

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Joris Koning
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#5 Post by Joris Koning »

Bart,

The transmission requires quite some special tools and parts. Not saying a home wrench can not rebuild one, but unless you have access to the tools and parts I would strongly suggest you take your transmission to a reputable rebuilder.
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Harlan Halsey
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#6 Post by Harlan Halsey »

The only practical way I know to evaluate the condition of a transmission is to drive it. What I would do is to disassemble the transmission down to the intermediate plate. You can do that without any special tools. Be sure to save all the old gaskets. Then clean everything in solvent. If everything looks good-you can shift the cluster into every gear, then reassemble with new gaskets. The intermediate plate gaskets set the pinion depth, that's why there may be more than one there. Now drive it. If the transmission was OK, you win. If driving uncovers something wrong, then best send it to Vic or another knowledgeable person for a rebuild. That is a lot of work, so maybe just sending the transmission out in the first place makes sense.
Disassembling the transmission beyond the gear cluster/intermediate plate requires special tools. And then evaluating the condition of the individual parts takes knowledge and skill which come from experience.
Good Luck

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Jason Laster
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#7 Post by Jason Laster »

Bart wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:00 am Hi Jason

Sorry for my bad english

The oil was quite dark brown first... then when almost everything was out it got dark grey and very sludge...
So not a good sign....

Transmission is already out of the car
No need to apologize for your English, I guarantee that your English is better than any other language I know. I just wanted to make sure your expectations of what gear oil looks like was correct. On my car I left the transaxle in place to determine what condition it is in. In my case I got lucky as it drives with no issues, and shifts smoothly into all gears. I just made sure I put the correct quantity of fresh oil inside before running it. Good luck with it.
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Wayne Arny
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#8 Post by Wayne Arny »

Bart, If you're near the Washington, DC area, I would suggest Eric Wills (https://www.willswerks.com). He did the trans in my '57 A Coupe, and I'm very happy with it. Wayne

Bart Elsen
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#9 Post by Bart Elsen »

Hello All

Some updates:
-I removed the axles tubes from the transmission and dustcaps
-Cleaned the transmission housing from the outside

Some things that I noticed:
On the differential;I see a sort of white plastic ring on the inner side I first thought it was the differntial itself....but looks like plastic?
-> is this normal? I've not seen this before on the transmission pitures that I found on the net?

On the outside of the flange I see quite some deep scratches on top.
Is this a problem? (picture 2)

On the inside of the axles near the fulcrum plates there is quite some oil sludge (picture 1)

See pictures for more details

Grts
Bart
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Jim Clement
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#10 Post by Jim Clement »

what did you find out when you took it apart ?
 

Bart Elsen
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#11 Post by Bart Elsen »

Hi Jim

Still didn't open the transmission.
Just busy with cleaning outside by hand :D

Plan is to replace the 2 differential bearings and all gaskets..... (using the same dimensions of gaskets).....so that there would be no adjustments to be made hopefully

Fingers crossed that we don't find any damage inside

All tips and tricks are welcome ;-)

Grts
Bart

Michael Foster
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#12 Post by Michael Foster »

If you change out side bearings you may need to reset spacing, i.e. using same gasket may not work.

Michael Foster
MICHAEL FOSTER

Bart Elsen
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#13 Post by Bart Elsen »

Hi Michael

Why would it need a reset?
Bearings normally do have standard dimensions ....in this case the width.
Then using again the same shims (S1 and S2) on the exact same locations and use the same paper gakets thickness...??

Don't really understand why the spacing will be different?

Can you explain this further....just to understand?

Grts
Bart

Bart Elsen
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#14 Post by Bart Elsen »

Gearbox is completely cleaned. :D
Meanwhile I bought a complete clutch kit for the transmission from sachs but now I noticed that the release bearing is completely different from the original one that came out of the transmission
It also wobble's in the clutch fork....so not so happy

On the original bearing this number is mentioned: 3159 140 037

Picture of original and new one:
First picture shows the original bearing on the top, Second picture shows the bearing on the left side.
Also the 2 clampes of the new version really look cheap
No trust in putting this set into my car
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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Help needed: Rebuild 716 transmission.

#15 Post by Vic Skirmants »

Unfortunately those new bearings are the only ones available. They do work, they just don't look "quality". You can use your old clips if you prefer.

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