1952 Coupe Restoration

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Scott Nowell
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#16 Post by Scott Nowell » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:55 pm

Also found this short thread from member Brady Owen who owns (owned?) the next car off the production line to mine. Brady has no contact details on his profile so if anyone has those, or knows of car 11510, It'd be great to have it as comparison.

http://forum.porsche356registry.org/vie ... im+bumpers

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James Davies
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#17 Post by James Davies » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:49 pm

Really interesting Scott! The bumper mount brackets on the side of the battery box are definitely different from the later '53 ones. I wonder if anyone else with an export bumper car can help confirm this layout?

One wonders why the front lower lip was removed! That's no small task, as it is leaded pretty heavily so that there's no seam in the couple inches in front of the wheel opening.

Tony Proasi
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#18 Post by Tony Proasi » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:55 am

11270 is a export bumper car has the same bumper mount setup.
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Scott Nowell
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#19 Post by Scott Nowell » Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:53 pm

Thanks for the pics Tony and that info Jim. Who knows why someone would take the lower strip panel off? Seems crazy but obviously made sense to someone at some point. (Like most Porsche mods!)

I'll look for any info as to why the bumper mounts are different to the ones Tony has pictured in the slightly earlier car. It's a bit of a lottery with these cars, seemed like they threw on whatever part was coming through at the time. That may be the case, or it may be part of the later front end modifications.

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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#20 Post by Brady Owen » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:09 am

Hi Scott:

I do not get to to the forum very often but a mutual friend sent me you posting. Thought my info might help. I have 11510 in primer but most of the car is here including both interim bumpers. My COA is likewise very sketchy, 11510 was also delivered through Max Hoffman in Fish Silver Gray with as near as I can guess, red carpets. I have been in an accumulation mode with this coupe attempting to find and fit some of the still missing parts. However, most of primary parts fortunate are still with the car.
I have been around 356's for quite a while and will attempt to answer questions if I can. This is the third pre "A" I have had, but 11510 is the oldest.
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FR on bumper.JPG
This pix says a thousand words
 

Scott Nowell
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#21 Post by Scott Nowell » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:54 pm

Wow, Brady thanks for getting into contact. I can already see the front strip panel I'm missing on your car with the interim bumper. I've just been sent your email address, will try on that.

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James Davies
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#22 Post by James Davies » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:15 am

Tony, your split-window export bumper mounting points on the side of the battery box looks almost identical to Scott's bent-window ones. That's pretty good evidence that Scott is on the right track. Very cool, and good detective work Scott!

Of course Scott's brackets that go from the battery box to the fenders are the 1952-53 variety, which have the vertical horn mount on them and diagonal bracket attaching behind, to allow for a larger, louder HO/FSA type horn with 8 perimeter screws. The split-window horns were mounted in alcoves on the front of the battery box. There was only space in those alcoves for the smaller, HO/FDF variety (6 perimeter screws).

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Spencer Harris
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#23 Post by Spencer Harris » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:51 pm

James Davies wrote:Scott's brackets that go from the battery box to the fenders are the 1952-53 variety, which have the vertical horn mount on them and diagonal bracket attaching behind, to allow for a larger, louder HO/FSA type horn with 8 perimeter screws. The split-window horns were mounted in alcoves on the front of the battery box. There was only space in those alcoves for the smaller, HO/FDF variety (6 perimeter screws).
Detail of the 52/53 fender brace/horn bracket configuration James describes. These photos & sketch from #60238 mfg. date 08/17/53 - European delivery.
fender_brace_53cab_harris.jpg
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Horn Brace2.jpg
When I found my car it was fitted with a single (driver's side) 6-screw HO/FDF.
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The '53 parts manual lists 356.62.030 as Bosch signal horn with bracket and 356.62.033 as Bosch extra loud horn. The '55 parts manual lists the same part numbers as Horn Bosch (normal) and Horn Bosch (road). I suspect the 6-screw HO/FDFs were standard for Euro cars and the louder HO/FSA horns were preferred for US delivery cars, or perhaps the road horn was an option in either market.
53 & 55 Parts Horns.jpg

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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#24 Post by Scott Nowell » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:03 pm

Excellent information, thanks all. Good to know they're the original bumper brackets.

The horn I have is this one, I'm not sure if it's original. Unfortunately it's the only photo I have of it, and it's currently 800km away so I don't have any more detail.
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Spencer Harris
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#25 Post by Spencer Harris » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:44 pm

Scott Nowell wrote:The horn I have is this one, I'm not sure if it's original.
I'm going to defer to James on that one Scott. He's done much more research on pre-As than I. My comments about the normal horn and the road horn are simply theory, and since the smaller 6-screw horn was on my car when I found it I'll likely clean it up and reinstall it. The 8-screw HO/FSA that James referenced looks like this. They're the size of a dinner plate and about 5 lbs. :wink:
30DSC_0355.jpg
Spencer Harris
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Scott Nowell
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#26 Post by Scott Nowell » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:03 am

I'm going to have to research the horn Spencer, it's an 8-screw which seems to be correct but it's been repainted or is a repro. Will have to check when I get the rest of the parts down to Sydney. Interesting to note there was both 'normal' and 'loud'. The earlier horns I have heard wouldn't startle a nervous man with his head under the bonnet.

I get the feeling there's not much about Pre-A Porsches that Jim doesn't know! Very handy for the rest of us.

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James Davies
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#27 Post by James Davies » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:22 pm

Thanks Spencer!

Here's drawings of the available horns in 1952 from the 1952 Bosch parts book.
horns_bosch_1952_1.png
horns_bosch_1952_2.png
The black ones without the grills are meant to be behind bodywork. The chrome ones with grills are meant to be mounted on the bumper, which one sees from period rally photos of Porsches. Later on, all the Bosch horns had grills, both black and chrome.
458280.jpg
Porsches in 1950 through '53 came with either the HO/FDF 6/3 (and 6/4 if 2 horns), which is the 6 perimeter screw model, or the the larger and louder HO/FSA 6/4 (and 6/3 if dual horn) which is the 8 perimeter screw model in 1952-53. Here's a photo of a 1952 HO/FSA 6/4.
20141210_50d_3531f.jpg
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Horns were easily broken due to their location, so they were often replaced during the lifetime of the car. Bosch horns are date stamped on the back rim, but sometimes due to corrosion or lousy stamping, this is not readable. You can see "4H" stamped on the one above. That's April 1952.

In 1952, your car could have come with either one or two horns, and any combination of normal or loud. If it came with one of the large, loud (starkhorn) HO/FSA ones, it would have likely been the 6/4 one. If it came with 2, then that might be listed on the Kardex, and the car would also have a Bosch horn relay SH/SE 11/1 shown in the drawing and photo below, with the appropriate wiring.
horn_relay_bosch_1952.png
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Sometimes cars came with one loud and one regular, with a switch between them - country horn and city horn. Again, your car would have the relay and a toggle switch if this was the case, and it could be deduced from the wiring perhaps.
5955781.jpg
Hope this helps! Sorry for the sidetrack on horns, but I don't think any of these diagrams had been posted here before.

Claudio Rimediotti
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#28 Post by Claudio Rimediotti » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:17 pm

I have 11487
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In chicken barn for 30 years
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Spencer Harris
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#29 Post by Spencer Harris » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:30 pm

Claudio Rimediotti wrote:I have 11487
Another great project. In a chicken barn for 30-years? Tell us the rest of the story please!
Congratulations on the find Claudio!
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Re: 1952 Coupe Restoration

#30 Post by Claudio Rimediotti » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:08 pm

Thank you
Yes in a chicken barn in Arizona for around 30 years, see first photo.
Last american owner was Ibrahim Kuzu well know in 356 world.
I have it from 2005 but in same conditions...
I hope One day to start restoration...

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