1957 356 A Late T1

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Jim Clement
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Tag: 1957 356 A Coupe
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#46 Post by Jim Clement » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:18 pm

how about a 57, T1 just prior to T2 cut off ?
 

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#47 Post by Vic Skirmants » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:35 am

I think the cups were used by then. Somebody go do a parts book search.

Chris Makaritis
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#48 Post by Chris Makaritis » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:38 am

To help the topic, I am using a 741 core and case fitted to a 644 nose. Vic was kind enough to part with that and necessary parts back in 2015...

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Spencer Harris
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#49 Post by Spencer Harris » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:48 am

Retaining Cups (#53) shown in '57 parts manual applicable to trans no. 25001 and onward.
Vic can tell us approximate mfg. date & type gearbox. From part no. it's a 644 box.
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Spencer Harris
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Chris Makaritis
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#50 Post by Chris Makaritis » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:49 am

The beauty of restoring.
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Vic Skirmants
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#51 Post by Vic Skirmants » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:29 pm

Trans #25001 was the first 716. That would be about December 1958; HOWEVER! The mount cups were on 644 transmissions from at least 1957. Very definitely on T-2 cars; I also assume on later T-1s.

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Harlan Halsey
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#52 Post by Harlan Halsey » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:01 am

Vic,
Do you mean to say that there were some dual mount transmissions which simply omitted the cup? If so that would solve a mystery with my '56 T1 restoration.

I have been wondering why there does not seem to be enough room for the shim and why the mount offers up so far toward the outside. Leaving the cups off would help make sense of the mount. Cups did not come with the car stuff so I got two from EASY, thinking that all dual mounts had the cups. If Porsche simply added the cups to the same rubber mounts, then they would have had to move the mounting plates in the later cars a bit forward and out to accommodate the thickness of the cups.

I had not thought of running without the cups, but that looks like the answer now.

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Spencer Harris
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#53 Post by Spencer Harris » Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:08 am

Vic is of course correct. The reference to transmission 25001 & onward refers to the case or type 716 trans - not the retaining cups. The 716 gearbox utilized many parts from both the 644 and 519 transmissions. Since the retaining caps carry a 644 part no. they were first installed as Vic has recalled on 644 boxes. According to Brett's new book 644s were first used beginning in August '56.
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Spencer Harris
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Vic Skirmants
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#54 Post by Vic Skirmants » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:55 am

"Brett's new book 644s were first used beginning in August '56."
Does Brett mean the 644 tunnel case, or the cups as of August 1956? I have definitely seen 644 tunnel case cars without the cups. And to further muddy the water, Porsche referred to the 519 case transmissions with the dual mount as "644" as a designation for the dual mount. This has confused some people into thinking their early 1956 car had a tunnel case trans. If the number is less than 11000, it is a 519 with dual mount. 11001 and up, tunnel case 644.
My transmission records show #7292 as the last single-mount 519, and #7295 as the first dual-mount 519. Anybody have a number between those? Also, the first dual-mount noses did not have slots for attaching the mounts; only four holes.
More: highest number I have recorded for a 519 is 10717. The Spyders used the 10000 range of numbers, so there is some duplication.
Earliest 644 tunnel I have listed is 11019.
Now you know as much as I do.

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Wes Bender
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#55 Post by Wes Bender » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:59 am

Vic Skirmants wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:55 am

Now you know as much as I do.
I don't think so. :wink:
Some days it just isn’t worth the hassle of chewing through the restraints......

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Spencer Harris
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#56 Post by Spencer Harris » Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:50 pm

Vic Skirmants wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:55 am
Now you know as much as I do.
I hope to one day know as much as you've forgotten!
Spencer Harris
San Joaquin Valley, CA.

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Spencer Harris
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#57 Post by Spencer Harris » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:52 pm

Vic Skirmants wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:55 am
Does Brett mean the 644 tunnel case, or the cups as of August 1956?
Only the 644 tunnel case transmission - not the retaining cups.
Spencer Harris
San Joaquin Valley, CA.

Chris Makaritis
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#58 Post by Chris Makaritis » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:47 pm

Hello everyone.
Any guidance as to where I can find the engine bay sound deadening kit for this A T1?
It would be nice to find something close to the original.
Thank you for your help.

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James Davies
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#59 Post by James Davies » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:04 am

Chris, Bill Perrone (The Parts Shop) has provided the sound insulation kits in the past. These are the tar ones that need to be heated to be applied. You can find his info in the Resources > Vendors link above. Have you already applied the same sound insulation that goes goes inside the car and in the front luggage area?

Off-topic, It looks like your engine has a 2-piece case crank pulley. These have larger diameter than the 3-piece case crank pulley. The 2-piece case one is 171.5mm and has reverse threads on the backside to work with the VW case. The 3-piece case pulley is significantly smaller by ~1 cm, though I can't find or recall the exact dimension right now. This is important because the two pulleys match up to different generator pulleys and use differently-sized (width and length) V belts. Might be a good idea to double-check the diameter.

Your car is looking fantastic! Congratulations.

Dick Weiss
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Re: 1957 356 A Late T1

#60 Post by Dick Weiss » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:31 pm

Hi Chris,

I won't need to change anything about responses from other members about your car, but assume you received more after
all your photos were shown; Here's some of mine:
Your existing F/shroud is the later one w/the venturi-ring vs. the wire mesh version, the front brake drums are the 60mm
option--also the little bracket on the firewall is for a Carrera fuel pressure/filter; Any holes on the left side of the engine compartment for a oil tank (for the engine). Finally, the Carrera instruments vs. the regular pushrod engine instruments.

As Vic said, you'll have a lot of work to finish the job, but keep the 356 "On the road the Road Again" and enjoy!!
All the best,
Dick

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