1960 356B Coupe restoration

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#31 Post by ScottBerry » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:31 am

Still trying to get the front battery box sides in correct position. Had to cut and form some stub pieces from the upper torsion tower to where the end of the battery box sides will fit and butt up to. The width of the upper flange is narrow around the upper torsion tower. Had to cut out a long pie shape piece from the upper flange on the battery box sides draw it in to narrow it along a good length of the piece. Welded up and ground down. Angle from the top of the gas tank shelf to end of the battery box sides is good now and bumper bracket holes in correct spot. Now on to battery box floor.
Attachments
150323 pie shpae slit cut out of battery box side upper flange to narrow the width to line up with torsion tower.jpg
150323 drivers side narrowed.jpg
150323 passenger side upper flange narrowed welded and ground.jpg
150323 stub piece formed and welded on to join up with end of battery box side.jpg
150323 both battery box sides in place and upper flanges narrowed.jpg
150323 good shot of how much frigg'n metal has had to be replaced piece by piece.  Will be good to put new metal pieces together for battery box.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#32 Post by ScottBerry » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:53 am

Had some time over the weekend to work on battery box. Took a lot of fiddling to get the battery box side panels in position. Needed to find two or three measurements that lined up. The angle of the top of the flange running back to the gas shelf; forward protrusion – distance from torsion tube – and then of course all squared up. The final position of the side panels was welded in place with bracing. The angled piece of angle iron really stiffened everything up to form a solid structure.

From there it was on to the front battery box panel . This took some reshaping to follow the shape of the side panels. Some of the angles had to be partially reshaped to fit. Then the side support flanges on the side panels where shaped to follow the line of the front panel. Then the battery box floor was put in place. This also needed work to shake hands with the front panel. The angles on the battery floor had to be moved slightly and reformed. Then the front leading edge need cutting on an angle. This took a number of cuts to slowly sneak up on the front panel. There is more material on the floor then needed – finding the right position to avoid cutting into the dimples is a chore – will still take some work to find where the back wall will fall.
Attachments
150330 bracing used to keep battery box sides in place and form a strong structure for building complete battery box.jpg
150303 got a really nice VIN panrl from restoration design - cut out old VIN plate to stiched in to new VIN panel.jpg
150303 front of battery box in position - took some reshaping.jpg
150330 battery box side panel flanges shaped and bet to profile of battery box front.jpg
150330 starting to position battery box floor - lots of materail to be cut on leading edge.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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Steve Harrison
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#33 Post by Steve Harrison » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:08 am

Scott,
Congratulations on "turning the corner" !!
Nothing like working in the positive to get your spirits up. The big boost will come when you finally get out of the "bowels" of the car and get to the topside stuff. You really are going all out for this car and it'll pay you back with a lot of fun miles someday. What you might do is when you're done, lay out all the old rusty pieces you cut out and take a picture. When you look back at that picture in a few years you'll shake your head,..."Man,..I was crazy, and I'd never do that again knowing what I know now.." haha. Here's mine:
GEDC1066.JPG
Again, congrats, and keep at it. You're doing outstanding work.

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#34 Post by ScottBerry » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:04 pm

Steve – how right you are. Love the picture of your pile of rusty metal. It doesn't take in to account the pounds and pounds of metal from cutting and grinding tools either. I was looking at the car the other day (the side of the front frame) – and was amazed at the amount of old metal as a percentage to new metal. If I knew at the start what was worth saving I really can’t say I would have started down this road. From all outward appearances it looked like a manageable project. I ignored all the sage advice of purchasing a 356. I had done some minor restoration work on my 912 but never a major restoration. Finding really bad efforts from previous owners hidden underneath was an even bigger surprise – never sure what is original or fake.

There are times when I have been way over my head but with each step I am learning more skills and knowledge – work is speeding up – fewer mistakes – and better critical thinking and planning so fewer backward steps. (the recent one was narrowing the battery box side flanges before getting the VIN panel to test fit – I now have to “slightly mod” the VIN panel to account for my battery box “mod”. A mod for my mod.

The good news - working on it is still a joy – not a chore. The support of the group on line is a big help – so helpful to ask questions and learn from others than repeat mistakes. The big advantage I have is a friend with a shop. All the right tools and lots of knowledge. From time to time I pay shop rates for his help but mostly all of my own work now that my skills are up to par so he allows me to carry on on my own. He also has very high standards – so when I think about cutting a corner or making do – he strongly urges me to reconsider. He has never been wrong.

After the front section – I think I will tackle the tunnel then on to the back chassis. Not looking forward to tackling the back half of the car frame. Then will turn to the inside. Thanks for your encouragement.

In terms of the rusty bits. Once I know I no longer need the rusty bits for reference it goes to a pile for the metal recycler. They are often unrecognizable – taking up space. Maybe I don't keep 'em because it is a bit of a sad reminder of the sorry shape of the car. I should think of it as a measure of success of what is no longer on the car.

The hardest part now that I am 19 months in to this is trying to explain to my wife and friends when they ask - "so how is the car coming - almost done?" I hate having this discussion. My response is now - it will be years not months. This is always met with a stoney silence and a quizical look of - "are you nuts?". I need some 356 friends up here in Ontario who understand.



Take care Steve
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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Steve Harrison
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#35 Post by Steve Harrison » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:14 pm

I know exactly what you mean about "that question"....it's hard to answer, especially since you might have just spent eight hours on something that is the size of a dinner plate, and will never be seen. It's hard to explain that.

Non car folks are just trying to be helpful, and supportive,..but it takes another crazy with 'the sickness' to really understand what it's like, I agree. The pile I show in the pic was the last it was ever seen,...I snapped the pic, and canned it all,...recycled like you are doing with yours. In the end,...someone will get an awfully expensive garage door, or tin can,..or whatever haha.

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#36 Post by ScottBerry » Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:57 am

The battery box has been cut and positioned ready for welding. A lot of pieces to all fit together – the floor – two sides – the front sloping panel – the center battery box back and the two side wings as well. A very tight fit requiring the pieces to be removed and trimmed and repositioned a number of times. Plan on tacking the pieces together so it is a good and solid and then removing the whole assembly for final welding and grinding on the bench.
Attachments
150407 some bending and cutting required to get floor and front sloping panel to cleanly meet - a lot of material removed from floor.jpg
150407 battery box pieces all in place ready for welding.jpg
150407 VIN panel in position to check alignment before welding battery box together.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#37 Post by ScottBerry » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:09 am

With all the pieces in place and in position I applied a number of tac welds around the battery box. I then removed the whole structure and can now start finish welding all of the seams . Much easier on the bench to turn every which way.
Attachments
150409 battery box tack welded.jpg
150409 battery box tack welded ready for all final welding on teh bench where it is easier to get at and complete.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

ryan base
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#38 Post by ryan base » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:37 pm

scott following your progress with great enthusiasm and appreciation for frontend recreation. what fun

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#39 Post by ScottBerry » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:38 pm

IMG_20151210_123609.jpg
Well not to worry, this is not a project that got to a point in which it collapsed on itself and ground to a sad end. It is however a project which took a backseat to an active summer and busy fall with personal and work commitments. But it is a project that is still very much alive – just missing available time. With the front end more or less complete and all of the bits and pieces shaped, sorted and fitted I was tempted to carry on and weld together. In the end the decision – and I believe the right decision – was to drag it out and sandblast the front half of the car and within 24 hours epoxy prime it to preserve it for a while. It just seemed to make more sense to focus on the rear section and get it in shape. The front end was a bear and I suspect the rear will be as bad if not worse. So time to dig in.

Here are some shots of the sandblasting. This is where the rotisserie really paid for itself. The sandblasting was a heck of a messy uncomfortable experience. Fun to see metal emerge rejuvenated but sand everywhere. Fortunately in Ontario Canada we experienced a rather mild December which made the job a little easier wrapped up in hood and coveralls in 50 degree weather. Plenty of snow now of course.

Here are a bunch of pictures of the media blasting. Good news is the front section I completed did not turn up any holes or rusted metal messed. Only a couple of pin holes so all the right bad metal was cut out.
Attachments
IMG_20151212_150148.jpg
IMG_20151222_074842.jpg
once sandblasted a coat of epoxy was quickly applied
IMG_20151212_092322.jpg
IMG_20151212_110148.jpg
IMG_20151210_123626.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

ryan base
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#40 Post by ryan base » Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:04 am

scott it looks crisp, fresh, and sanitary

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#41 Post by ScottBerry » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:53 pm

Thanks Ryan - a small but important milestone - good mental boost.

So tackling the back. Cut out the rear parcel shelf and then transmission cover as well. Need to go at the transmission support cross-member - not looking forward to that. First step will be to address the rear frame rail. I have made a wooden die to shape the curves. Worked okay with thinner metal as a test but need to try it now with heavy gauge steel. Will likely soak the wood then heat the metal before shaping.
Attachments
201611 rear frame rail.jpg
201611 transmission cover.jpg
210611 rear parcel shelf.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

Justin Rio
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#42 Post by Justin Rio » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:33 pm

Hi Scott,
Great job on the repair work so far and quite a lot of it yet to go I see. After seeing your trunk floor repair I just had to chime in here to warn you and anyone else reading this of the seriousness of tampering with those VIN numbers. I know this was done with the best intentions and for cleanest end result possible but what you have committed here is Felony VIN tampering. We as the general public are never at liberty to alter, change or remove those identification numbers not even to clean under the data plate much less graft them onto a new panel. We've had this discussion on this forum before I am still blown away by the casual attitude of guys wanting to know who can re-stamp their cases or new bulk heads. The answer is "No One", legally speaking. Now nothing may ever come of this change you've made but just know your car is now always at risk from here on in. You may sell this car 10 years later and if the new owner gets pinched with it and loses his investment he's going to come back on you for any loses and aggravation they me have suffered not to mention the Highway patrols department of theft and recovery will want to have a word with you as well. You know the car was legit and you know your not a car thief but the problem is law enforcement comes at as stolen until proven otherwise. Again If a number is found to be tampered with the car or motor is considered stolen until its true identity can be proven otherwise. The problem I see here is that there are no other permanent factory ID numbers on this body that correlate back to your newly grafted VIN number so there will be no way for law enforcement to discover its "true identity" other than just a story from you and no the closing panel numbers or door tag won't help you because they unbolt and are easily transplanted onto the new stolen body shell. The worst case scenario would be a judge ordering your car destroyed because its original number cannot be unquestionably authenticated. I'm sorry, I don't mean to pour cold water on your project, you're really doing a nice job resurrecting this old girl but you guys really need to be reminded about the seriousness VIN tampering. With the price of these cars continuing to climb theft and fraud is only going to increase (I've never seen so many matching numbers cars these days???) and so will the scrutiny of repairs like these.
Justin
Attachments
aaaaaa20VIN%20p.jpg
The scariest part of this repair joint is that this is where all the thieves graft the new plate on and no matter how cleanly you grind and file finish the weld joint it can always be found. Law enforcement will take it to their shop they will peel the paint back take a torch and heat the metal to a nice orange and your weld joint will be a perfect line of another shade. Then its all over the car is impounded and the owner is facing felony charges. I know this because My old mentor used to perform this for the highway patrol. This car is a done deal but for anyone else thinking of performing this repair, Don't do it! Try to save the original and stay well away from those numbers. Fair warning.

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#43 Post by ScottBerry » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:35 pm

Justin, thank you for posting up. I'm a little gobsmacked and not sure how to respond. I never imagined cuting and replacing metal does not apply to the VIN. Just my lack of knowledge and understanding. It was as you say done with the best of intentions- but I can well understand your advice and caution. It makes perfect sense hiw you have laid out the facts. All original panels end with the same numbers but as you say - can be easily changed as well. Hard lesson learned.
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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John Brooks
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#44 Post by John Brooks » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:36 pm

Scott

polish it SMOOOOOOOTH.........with 400 grit...... No depressions, no bumps no inclusions and on both sides. the DMV guy will look at it, remove the steering box cover and feel the underside for the weld bead. If it slick clean and you cant feel anything that might be enough. The only get out the torch and burn off the paint if they suspect something. If these numbers match any of the "government produced paperwork" ie title or old registration you should be OK
John Brooks

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getting pushed around in porsches since 1965

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#45 Post by Vic Skirmants » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:33 am

Is the "secret" number still on the right side under the hinge plate cover?

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