1960 356B Coupe restoration

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#16 Post by ScottBerry » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:12 pm

at the same time working on the front section that joins up with the front firewall and the side metal joining suspension tower
a lot of missing metal here - so tackling this in three pieces. the challenging piece is creating the eagg shaped curved piece. Using a cardboard template created teh rough size of the piece. Then applying the rough eagg shape to a pylwood cut out. It includes two identical pieces screwed together with the flat metal sandwiched in between. Using a hydrolic jack and a short piece of thick 3.5 inch round pipe I pressed out the shape.
Attachments
a1 forming metal in plywood form.jpg
pressing out the shape
a1 plywood frame.jpg
plywood frame cutout
a1 cardboard template.jpg
cardboard rough shape determined
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#17 Post by ScottBerry » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:26 pm

I have started to tackle the front of the car. I have removed the front battery box and nose panel but before doing so bolted a metal plate from the suspension tower to the battery side box so when I bolt on the new battery side box I have a reference point using the bolts for the bumper brackets.

Before removing the left and right upper trunk panel I cut out a plywood template. The template was screwed on one end to the cowl and the other supported with a treaded rod through the suspension block tab. This ensured that when I remove the upper trunk panel I have a good reference of where the new panel needs to be placed for the profile and height.

Need to confirm a few things with members.

It looks like the side panels of the car (that extend down to the bottom of the car to the top of the task tank height) extend up and then bend outwards (an inch or so) and then up again by an inch or so. This creates a ledge for the gas tank panel and VIN panel to rest on in the inside and the metal that extends up by an inch or so gets welded to the new trunk panel. The trunk panel bottom – once in position – looks like the bottom edge gets bent and tucks under the ledge that has been formed. Is this the correct understanding?

It also looks like the new upper trunk panel will be welded to the outside of the suspension tower. On the inside of the trunk area it looks like there are two pieces of metal welded on to the upper trunk panel around the suspension tower. A large egg shaped piece that would cover the backside of the suspension tower and then another piece that looks like extra material from the VIN panel that gets bent up (about an inch) and welded on to the egg shaped piece and to the upper inner trunk panel. Is correct?

Any details or measurements would be of help. Thanks
Attachments
rough cut of upper trunk panel with additional patch material.jpg
upper trunk panel partial removal.jpg
metal tube welded in for bracing before removing upper trunck panel.jpg
welded rod and bracket to be sure template remains in place treaded rod for fine adjustment.jpg
wood template for upper trunck cut and in position.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#18 Post by ScottBerry » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:47 pm

I have started to remove portions of the gas tank shelf, VIN plate shelf and upper trunk panel. I am having trouble getting a handle on the metal/shapes and purpose of the metal that needs to go on the back side of vertical torsion bar support tower. Part of the backside of the tower is covered by the battery box panel but then there is additional material to be added. It would appear metal panel extends up and over the back of the tower above the level of the VIN panel forming a half circular shape that is welded to the back of the upper trunk panel. Additional material covers the bottom of the half circle shape with extra material from the edge of the VIN panel that folds up.

There are a lot of interconnected parts here. As Ron Roland points out “ The torsion bar tubes are fitted to the front of the side panel in the holes provided. These hose not to locate tubes in fact there is no weld here”.

Questions – is there benefit in weld this to the torsion bars. And what about the material behind this area?

The front side of the torsion bar support tower is welded to the new side piece for the battery box I will install.

The longitudinal front panel looks like it extends from the bottom up to form the half circle shape. This half circle is bowed outward (convex) .

This is all confusing. Can any members post up some photos of the repairs they would have done in this area – any dimensions or pictures of new material formed and the steps? It would be greatly appreciated.
Attachments
half of the gas tank shelf and VIN panel removed.jpg
area around torison support tower - materail being removed.jpg
upper torsion bar support tower details.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

David Gensler
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#19 Post by David Gensler » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:18 pm

Scott,
Perhaps these photos will be of help. I went through this area several years ago when working on my '58. Your upper trunk walls will be a little different stamping than mine, but the rest of this area is the same on T2 and T5. I replaced the entire inner fender well on the left side (NOS piece), the gas tank floor, and the upper trunk wall. Required for collision damage, rather than rust repair. It was a lot of work, but I'm pleased to report the patinet survived the surgery.

I should have some more photos of this area and the parts involved. If I can find them it may help answer some of your questions.
DG
104006newinnerfender.jpg
insideview.jpg
DSC02300.jpg
DSC03827.jpg
DSC03825.jpg
DSC03821.jpg
David Gensler

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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#20 Post by David Gensler » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:48 am

Here are the pictures of the NOS inner fender, which may answer you question of how this piece fits around the torsion bar tube area. You can see that from original it was intended to be bent for installation, then knocked back flat against the front beam vertical structure, sandwiching the battery box side, which was previously spot welded to the front beam. Additional spot welds were then added to keep the leading edge of the inner fender flat against the beam, but it wasn't a particularly thorough or orderly series of welds.
DSC02201.JPG
DSC02203.JPG
DG
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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#21 Post by ScottBerry » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:12 pm

Dave, thank you so much for taking the time to respond and post up some pictures. These are very helpful. Any more around where the foot pedal firewall comes up to meet the gas tank floor around the upper shock tower would be helpful. I am also looking for any shots where the end of the upper trunk panel terminates near the cowl the material that extends out under the body panels from the upper cabin. You can see from my shot I am missing the shape of the material. What was this used for – it does not look like it was welded to anything?

Thanks again David for the help and other members that may provide further insight.
Attachments
cowl area - need shape of protruding metal - what is the purpose - does not look like the flaps get welded to anythin.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

David Gensler
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#22 Post by David Gensler » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:08 pm

Scott, here is one more of the front bulkhead where it attaches to the inner fender. I'll see what else I may have.
DSC02211.JPG
For the "flaps" at the top of the upper trunk walls, these are really part of a separate piece that caps the door hinge pillar. The flaps are about 2" wide, and when you attach the front closing panel the upper edge of it gets spot welded to the flaps. The upper edge of the front fender opening is formed around the rear part of the flap, then transitions to the rear edge of the closing panel when it becomes available. Have a look here at my '64 coupe project, and about the 4th picture on page 10 you can see how the closing panel and flaps combine to shape the rear fender edge:

http://www.abcgt.com/forum/14-356-Resto ... 6&start=54

When I was doing the '58, I had to fabricate the hinge pillar cap from scratch. Unfortunately the only photo I can find (below) is of the layout on flat steel, and it is not a very good photo. It was not hard to make the part, but on a T2 it is juts flat surfaces. The T5 has a strengthening embossment that would be more difficult to copy. But your success beating out the shape of the inner fender panel suggests you could figure a way to make the embossed shape.
DSC02211.JPG
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DSC02624.JPG
David Gensler

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#23 Post by Vic Skirmants » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:50 am

Scott; you are correct. That piece is not welded to the body. It was merely sealed in that area with appropriate material. My body man missed that, and we used a piece of clothesline and silicone sealer to do the job while on the road to a Holiday, in the rain.

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#24 Post by ScottBerry » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:57 am

david and others thanks for the replies. very helpful.

I have removed half of the gas tank shelf. Removing the welds from the underside of the cowl was a bear. Need to now turn my attention to the speaker box assembly and adding material to join up with the end of the outer longitudinal piece. Before doing this I made a template jig so I can reposition the lower hinge (which needs to be removed to add supporting material behind) and a brace to reposition the speaker pot which will be replaced with a donor piece.

I have a donor piece from a 61B but the angle of the brace (bracket door support) that attaches to the speaker pot and the front closing panels are in a different plane. The one on the car that will be removed is on a vertical plane up and down but the donor piece is on an angle with the top facing inwards to the car. Does the face of the bracket door suport need to be the same for the door bumper stop or does it need to be aligned with the plan of the front closing panel?
Which is a more important reference bolted tight to the close panel or somehow adjusted as the door bumber support?
Attachments
new donor piece - door bracket support - rubber stop not in a vertical planel - angled back at the top towards door.jpg
current original door bracket support - vertical plane up and down.jpg
template brackets in place to reposition parts later.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#25 Post by ScottBerry » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:05 am

Correct placement for speaker box assembly

I am fitting in a new lower section of the speaker box assembly. I was fortunate enough to obtain a NOS speaker box piece. I transposed a cardboard template from the piece and test fitted the template.

A few questions.

On the cardboard template where the “arrow” can be seen – does the new metal tuck behind the outer longitudinal section as shown or should a 90 degree tab be made to sit on top of the outer longitudinal top?

The dash – dotted line – assuming cut off excess material to follow edge of longitudinal.

The cardboard template that shows the “?”. The NOS piece tab that would weld to the closing panel stops short of the side of the wall. Should this not be extended over to attach to the card body?

On the shot that is a side view – it would appear that the new piece sits back a bit meaning the front closing panel would slop backwards a bit towards the rear of the car. Should the front closing piece not extend upwards on a vertical straight plane or does it angle back a bit. It seems the lower part of the new speaker box piece should be in perfect alignment with the outer longitudinal edge – both the angle leading to the car (horizontal ) and upwards – vertical .

Any help would be appreciated.
Attachments
speaker box side view.jpg
speaker box view looking rearward.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#26 Post by ScottBerry » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:35 pm

It has been awhile since I have posted here - but have splintered off ona few topics - with lots of help from members on the speaker box assembly front section - which has been very helpful. With that behind me thought I would return to updates here.

With the front passenger side mostly prepared for lower speaker box assembly its time to tackle the driver’s side. Need to get the gas tank floor in so I have a good stright line and height to replace some of the metal side panels underneath for both left and right side.

It is looking a little bare and naked here having removed the drivers side upper trunk panel – but the good news is this will be the last of the rust for the front section to remove with good solid metal remaining to shake hands with the new metal parts. The gas tank shelf, VIN panel and battery box should go together fairly fast – (fingers crossed - all relative - a month working a few nights a week?) followed by upper trunk panels. This should show some positive progress forward.
Attachments
looking bare.jpg
drivers side removal of upper trunk.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#27 Post by ScottBerry » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:38 pm

With enough of the bad metal cut away – time to start fitting in new metal. The gas tank shelf is now in a good position. Took a lot of effort to grind away all the welds holding the metal to the rear of the cowl under the dash. Took time to determine the exact centre of the gas tank shelf - this is important because the metal each side is not perfectly even. – found the centre of the tank shelf and the centre of the cowl to line it up. All the front pieces will be put in position and then removed to do media basting of the front area. Knew a lot rusted metal was present so no point in blasting until a lot of it removed.

Cut in and trimmed the missing metal to join up with the underneath for the gas tank shelf. All cut and test fitted – ready for welding in.
Attachments
gas tankshelf first position.jpg
gas tank shelf second position.jpg
new metal passenger side - upper flange.jpg
new metal drivers side.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#28 Post by ScottBerry » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:55 am

moved to drivers side to line up supports to front wall section and outer longitudnal.
Attachments
1503 new metal starting to take shape - tough to determine where the bottom ends to fold bottom flange.jpg
1503 paper template taking shape for forward speaker box support.jpg
1503 hammering over flange - streching material.jpg
1503 maple wood template used as a buck to shape flange around speaker.jpg
1503 using orignal knarly piece for a template.jpg
1503 speaker box support piece being fitted.jpg
1503 need to remove one bad hinge pocket.  Made a brace so I know where to accurately reposition the new pocket when installed.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#29 Post by ScottBerry » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:02 am

managed some time over the weekend to form and fit the passenger side metal support for the speaker box. Also started to work on the hand brake cable tube support - mine is a little crusty so I reformed a support bracket. welded it up - ground it smooth and then a quick media blast - its why it does not look like it is made of metal. Almost ready to media balst the whole front section of the car now that most of the remaining new metal pieces are fitted. It is amazing to see all the new metal and see how much rusty old crap has been removed piece by piece.
Attachments
15037 made up a bracke for hand brake line - turned out well - media balsted ready for welding in to new firewall.jpg
15037 new support metal for speaker box formed on passenger side.jpg
15037 media blasted and re-welding wiring loom cover to new gas tank shelf.jpg
15037 drivers side support piece for speaker box complete and positioned.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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ScottBerry
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Re: 1960 356B Coupe restoration

#30 Post by ScottBerry » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:37 am

Started to turn my attention to the battery box. Have really struggled to find the right position of the two battery box side panels. I built a template jig before removing the front battery box section with metal templates screwed to the torsion arm and holes to align bolts through the bumper brackets on the battery box side panels. When I positioned new battery sides and lined them up with the bumper bolt brackets the angle of the panel going from the back of the car to the front was way off – it dropped downward. When I positioned the battery box side panels based on the straight line angle running from the gas tank shelf all the way to the front of the car it sits much better but the bolt pattern is significantly off for the bumper bracket. A level across the ends of the battery box sides – side to side are within .25 of a degree now. I have now got the panels in the right position I believe with a nice straight run from gas tank shelf to the front of the car. But I have learned that the welded position of the bumper bracket on the side panels is off. The passenger side is very close but drivers side is way off with the most forward bolt nut now about a full bolt width higher then it should be. I think I will have to keep the panel where I have it positioned and drill out the welds and remove the bumper bracket on the side panel and reposition based on my original bolt locations. The angled flange running along the top of the battery side panel is also to wide – does not cleanly line up with the upper torsion bar arm so this will need to be cut and moved inward to line up as well.


With side panels positioned I put in the battery box floor. There is a lot of metal here on the floor piece and it extends back well behind the torsion bar tubes. Is this excess metal to be measured and cut to size – looks like a lot of floor material to remove and the depression in the floor still looks like it extends to far back. Should the whole floor be cut and moved forward to the front of the car so the full depression is unaltered and then the rear cut and trimmed?

I have attached a picture of a shot of the battery floor from someone else’s project. Is the rear of the battery box positioned so it is perpendicular to the floor and runs vertical up to the VIN panel in a straight 90 degree line?

It also looks like the front panel for the battery box is also very wide - wider then the ends of the battery box side panels - does this also get trimmed?
Attachments
150319 battery box side with template jig.jpg
150319 aligning angle of battery box sides.jpg
150319 front panel for battery box - very wide.jpg
150319 battery box floor - lots of material.jpg
150319 finished batter box - someone ele's project not mine.jpg
1960 356B (110196) restoration project in progress
1968 912 Restoration Complete

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