64 SC Beater

Share progress on your 356 related project or full restoration with others!
Message
Author
M Penta
356 Fan
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 10:07 pm
Location: VT

Re: 64 SC Beater

#31 Post by M Penta » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:06 pm

So that's what they call a beater in Monterey? Sounds like it is in very good hands.

DaveErickson
356 Fan
Posts: 647
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Re: 64 SC Beater

#32 Post by DaveErickson » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:00 pm

M Penta wrote:So that's what they call a beater in Monterey? Sounds like it is in very good hands.
Yes, its more the terminology I picked up working at Wester in the 70's. If a Porsche wasn't kept up, it was a beater. Or a *real* beater.

User avatar
Matt Kreeve
356 Fan
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:10 am
Tag: truckin' on
Location: Cape Town, SA

Re: 64 SC Beater

#33 Post by Matt Kreeve » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:53 am

Robert Vaughan wrote:You are getting pulled in.

Be carefull. If you were to try to do what you propose to a door bottom then first you would have to disassemble the door and clean off the paint and bondo. Then you would be horrified with what you found. Then you would feel that perhaps the door skin should be replaced at least at the bottom. And of course, in sympathy the door bottoms would likely have rust pin holes too. And before long you would start exploring the rust in the front of the doors. And then you wouldn't be able to drive the car for years.
interesting forecast by Robert - is that what actually happened or did the electrolytic approach bear fruit?
Currently working on two nut+bolt resto's in Cape Town
'56 A RHD 5606 Silver Met) over Green - delivered Nairobi (Cooper Motor Corp)
'64 C RHD 6406 (Irisgrun) w Fawn (rehbraun) - delivered Johannesburg (Lindsay Saker)

DaveErickson
356 Fan
Posts: 647
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Re: 64 SC Beater

#34 Post by DaveErickson » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:15 pm

Matt Kreeve wrote:
Robert Vaughan wrote:You are getting pulled in.

Be carefull. If you were to try to do what you propose to a door bottom then first you would have to disassemble the door and clean off the paint and bondo. Then you would be horrified with what you found. Then you would feel that perhaps the door skin should be replaced at least at the bottom. And of course, in sympathy the door bottoms would likely have rust pin holes too. And before long you would start exploring the rust in the front of the doors. And then you wouldn't be able to drive the car for years.
interesting forecast by Robert - is that what actually happened or did the electrolytic approach bear fruit?
It hasn't yet, but the plating setup has made good progress. However the plating tank is a round, 33l poly tank, too small for a door bottom, so when and if the time comes to plate a door bottom I will need to find a rectangular tank.

-Dave

User avatar
Bob Kittel
356 Fan
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:12 am
Location: Long Beach, California

Re: 64 SC Beater

#35 Post by Bob Kittel » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:05 am

Your 64 SC seems to be designated C with a C motor. Did something happen to the original SC motor along the way?
Bob Kittel

DaveErickson
356 Fan
Posts: 647
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Re: 64 SC Beater

#36 Post by DaveErickson » Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:21 pm

Bob Kittel wrote:Your 64 SC seems to be designated C with a C motor. Did something happen to the original SC motor along the way?
I suspect that it was a dealer swap, and that there is another 356 out there which originally had the C engine in my car, and currently has the SC engine mine came with. That is the only reason I can see for the Cardex having both engine serial numbers.

DaveErickson
356 Fan
Posts: 647
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Re: 64 SC Beater

#37 Post by DaveErickson » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:44 pm

One of my winter projects (once the garage addition is completed) is to tackle the insulation panels in the engine compartment and above the transmission in my 64SC. I intend to stay as close to OEM as possible: I have a set of the OEM panels, and I need to figure out how it all is supposed to work and find the right adhesive.

It appears that the original sound panels were two layers: the top being a thick and stiff tar paper (bituminous) product (which I have), on top of a mat of brown fiber insulation that is about 1/2" thick. The whole assembly is about 1" thick, held in place by the metal clips around the edge of the engine compartment, the speed nuts from the rear seat back and the adhesive. I don't know if it is different under the car, I haven't removed the panels above the transmission yet. I bought some similar brown fiber insulation from Wolfsburg West, but it is not quite as dense and I worry about its ability to bond to the tar paper and withstand the shear forces that these stiff panels will generate. Fortunately I was able to salvage quite a bit of the fiber mats in the engine compartment.

I'm looking for the best adhesive for fiber mat to body and the tar paper panels to the fiber mats. I've done a lot of searching and I'm not finding an adhesive that is advertised to hold tar paper. Probably any number of adhesives would work, but none I have located mention tar paper as a possible substrate. The panels get glued to the brown, fibrous 1/2" thick insulation.

The adhesive I like best right now is 3M™ Neoprene High Performance Contact Adhesive 1357 Light Yellow. It mentions rubber as a substrate, so maybe that is close enough. It comes in quart and gallon cans so I can brush or spray it on. That seems appropriate for doing a full set of sound deadening panels. The OEM panels are going to need to be heated to get them to fit the body contours, so my plan is to use a propane torch similar to a roofing torch to heat each panel, well away from the car due to the flammability of the contact cement.

I am definitely interested in hearing from anyone who has done this install before (using OEM panels, not the Stoddard's kit or the dynamat products), or who knows of a source for the brown fiber mats which better match the originals.

-Dave

User avatar
Doug McDonnell
356 Fan
Posts: 3459
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:21 am
Location: Augusta,Michigan

Re: 64 SC Beater

#38 Post by Doug McDonnell » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:53 pm

If listed on Kardex wouldn't be dealer swap. Kardex is a factory warranty card is the way I understand it. So maybe someone with a "Deep Throat" source at the factory might shed more light on the engine switch.
1965 356C There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

DaveErickson
356 Fan
Posts: 647
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Re: 64 SC Beater

#39 Post by DaveErickson » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:38 pm

Doug McDonnell wrote:If listed on Kardex wouldn't be dealer swap. Kardex is a factory warranty card is the way I understand it. So maybe someone with a "Deep Throat" source at the factory might shed more light on the engine switch.
Good idea, Doug. I only have the COA, so reading the actual Kardex would be a start.

M Penta
356 Fan
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 10:07 pm
Location: VT

Re: 64 SC Beater

#40 Post by M Penta » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:09 pm

Amazing machining skills Dave. Good luck with garage project.

DaveErickson
356 Fan
Posts: 647
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Re: 64 SC Beater

#41 Post by DaveErickson » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:16 pm

M Penta wrote:Amazing machining skills Dave. Good luck with garage project.
Mark, thanks for the nice words.

The garage project has been a long time coming. I built my house in 1992, and the garage ended up as the woodshop, and still is. I have a small attached shop which is the metal shop. So cars get stored and repaired outside. Even the 64SC has been outside under a car cover for over 20 years, which did it no good. The garage addition will have a 4 post rack with a 12' ceiling (the rack raises the car 7', so there is plenty of headroom for a 356 and to walk around underneath or park another car), lots of cabinets and storage for 356 parts, transmissions and motors, insulation, a 9x9 sectional door, an I-beam mounted to the ceiling for an electric hoist, Vidmar cabinets for parts storage, plus work areas for electroplating, sheet metal brake, grinders, parts cleaning (incl. ultrasonic cleaner), engine assembly & welding. Like my other shops, every square inch will be in use.

I envy those folks who live in parts of the country where you can just pop up a Butler building with no hassle, but in this case, the permits, structural engineering, foundation work and structural components more than doubled the cost and complexity of the project. A lot has changed in Calif. since the house was built in 1992, specifically triggered by the Northridge earthquake in 1994, which saw many buildings collapse due to the lack of shear strength and upload strength in typical wood-framed garage door openings. We are required to correct the problem in the existing garage in order to get the permit for the addition. In addition to structural, we had to add fire sprinklers (not required in 1992). However, I am glad the problems will be corrected and I look forward to being able to work on the car on the lift in a heated garage with supplies and tools at hand. The structural engineer even designed the footings for the lift columns to resist the lateral forces and lift generated in an earthquake, so the 356 should be safe ;<) In the event of an earthquake, the house may collapse, but the detached garage will be the safest spot around!

User avatar
Steve Hatfield
356 Fan
Posts: 696
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:54 am

Re: 64 SC Beater

#42 Post by Steve Hatfield » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:32 pm

Dave,
I am on bended knee!
For years I have salvated for a Monach 10EE lathe but for two reasons, no avail. I don' t have ready access to three phase and I never had an extra $10 grand to play with.
But one day maybe....or perhaps a Hardinge.
So I til then, I labor away on my Sheldon 10" High School relic.
Steve Hatfield
Fort Walton Beach, FL
'63 S90 Sunroof Coupe
'06 997S Coupe

DaveErickson
356 Fan
Posts: 647
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Re: 64 SC Beater

#43 Post by DaveErickson » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:15 am

Steve, when you are ready to go looking for a 10EE, let me know. They are a lot more available in Florida than around here - mine came from Oregon. And cost was around $4k, they are affordable as long as you are patient.

DaveErickson
356 Fan
Posts: 647
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Re: 64 SC Beater

#44 Post by DaveErickson » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:46 am

The transmission is finally going together. Here are some pictures of measuring the pinion height. I don't own the factory tools for this job, so I used the Deckel mill along with a measuring tool called a centricator. First the intermediate plate was indicated in, and the transmission was adjusted so that the pinion shaft is parallel to the Y axis. The spindle was centered on the side plate opening. Then the offset from the side plate center to the end of the pinion was measured. The pinion is stamped 59.14, the measurement was 59.04, so I need to add a .10mm gasket at the intermediate plate (for a total of .20mm, since there is one gasket already). I had calculated the needed gasket as .15mm based on measurements of the original gasket and the thicknesses of the new pinion bearing in the intermediate plate.

The transmission has 4 new syncros, all new bearings, one of Vic's rebuilt hockey sticks with a chromed & ground shaft and a welded joint between the arm and the shaft, new cross shaft and starter motor bushings, new throttle cable cross shaft delrin bushings, new seals and a new throwout bearing. It was time.
D72_5331.jpg
D72_5335.jpg
D72_5338.jpg

DaveErickson
356 Fan
Posts: 647
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Monterey, CA

Rebushing split shaft 40PII's

#45 Post by DaveErickson » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:34 pm

I have been working on Solex 40PII's recently. Split shaft Solex 40PII's have "improved" throttle shaft bushings which are actually two piece. The inner bushing is a press fit into the outer shell, which is cemented into the body of the carb. The outer shell is machined in place, i.e. the inside end gets bored along with the throat of the carb, where it provides a bearing surface for the butterflies, helping prevent them from digging into the throat. So when re-bushing the carb, it would be nice to leave the outer shell in place, and just pull the inner bushing. Easier said than done, however. I find that when I tap the inner bushing to pull it out, the outer shell always comes with it. After 50 years, the cement holding the outer shell is not so strong. Then after rebushing the shell, and reinstalling it using loctite 680, it is almost impossible to align the curved surface perfectly with the throat of the carb. Here is an example that recently made its way into my shop:
D72_5618.jpg
Instead of being flush with the throat, the bushing has left a gap, allowing air to pass through even when the butterfly is closed. Here is another photo of the same carb after installing and cutting the end to match the throat, with a new inner bushing. It will also get a light honing.
D72_5622.jpg

Post Reply