1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

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Bill Block
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#46 Post by Bill Block »

What is recommended to rust-proof the inside of the torsion bar tubes?

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Mark Dionne
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#47 Post by Mark Dionne »

Bill, the tubes themselves contain tons of grease and have fittings to add more, so there is not much likelihood of rust there. If you're talking about the hollow supports for the torsion bar tubes that I have been repairing, then what I've done is treat the old metal as best I could with POR-15, and use epoxy primer on the new metal. I've also considered adding drain holes at the bottom. On an intact car you could spray something up there like Boeshield T-9.

The rear torsion bar support areas have similar issues. On my car those hollow areas had a drain hole on each side about 1/4 inch diameter with a plastic plug. Was that a factory thing or some later rust preventative fix? I doubt the latter since I've found nothing else along that line.
Mark Dionne
1965 Cabriolet 160920

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#48 Post by Vic Skirmants »

I do recall seeing those drain holes with a plug; on the few rust-free tubs around here years ago!
Obviously factory.

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Mark Dionne
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation - Heater Tube, Drain Plug, F

#49 Post by Mark Dionne »

When I went to put back the heater tube on the right side, it was 5 inches too long:
HeaterTube.jpg
HeaterTube.jpg (69.64 KiB) Viewed 4469 times
The back end of the tube had been floating free for many years because everything that was supposed to hold it in place was rusted. That plus moisture let the tube expand out. I tried wetting it and compressing it, but I couldn't move it more than about 1/4 inch, so I did some surgery on it.

In a previous post, I mentioned a plug I found in the hollow area under the rear torsion bar pivot. Here it is:
plug.JPG
Making drain holes for water was a great idea--Porsche should have done it more. (In fact they supposedly did make drain holes in longitudinal and tunnel bottoms in some models. I have copied this.) But why make a drain hole and then put a special plug in it so that it does not work?

Here's my rear floor pan getting ready:
floor.jpg
The bend on this one is 2.75 inches, and it just slips in between the ledges on the periphery of the floor. The front ended up at 3.25 inches.

I wish I had the world's largest c-clamp to help hold this in place for welding.
Mark Dionne
1965 Cabriolet 160920

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Mark Sabbann
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#50 Post by Mark Sabbann »

The plug looks like the ones found in the engine lid to protect the threaded bolt holes in lieu of mounting a luggage rack.
Mark Sabbann
1964 SC Coupe 'Essy'
1965 C Coupe 'The Yellow Delicious'

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Mark Dionne
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#51 Post by Mark Dionne »

Finally got the floor welded in. Here is what it looks like:
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Vic Skirmants
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#52 Post by Vic Skirmants »

I think your jig slipped. :wink:

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Jim Liberty
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#53 Post by Jim Liberty »

Do you work for NASA. If so, nice job yesterday !!! .....................Jim.
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Mark Dionne
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#54 Post by Mark Dionne »

The floor pans are finally welded in, after some time off for my sprained back to heal. I also fitted the pedals and seats. The real mental milestone was seeing the accelerator pedal in place again:
pedal.JPG
A few lessons learned:

- The cross tube where the two (Stoddard) pans join was much larger diameter than the original floor, so the matching cutouts on each side of the tunnel needed to be enlarged.

- When repairing the bottom edge of the tunnel, don’t extend the repaired edge too far forward on the driver’s side. The bracket for the accelerator pedal needs to come right up to the side wall of the tunnel, and you don’t want the tunnel bottom flange (that welds to the floor) to interfere. In my case the flange needed to end about 3 inches back from the place where the pedal board supports angle upward from the top of the tunnel.

- Fitting the back edge of the rear pan was easy. I made two cuts in the pan, about an inch long, just on either side of the tunnel. The middle portion slid under the tunnel and the outer portions sat on top of the perimeter ledge like everywhere else.

- I welded up from the bottom in four places: under the tunnel at the very back, under the tunnel at the joint between the front and rear pans, and under the front/rear joint on each side ledge. Fortunately I got this all “thought through” ahead of time--drilling holes when things are half welded in is no fun.

- In a few places I left the perimeter ledge wider than ¾ inch, and it bumped into the depressions formed into the front pan to strengthen it. This kept the pan from lying flat and had to be fixed, with some difficulty. Oops.

- Before welding I put in about 20 sheet metal screws to keep the pans aligned and pulled down flat.

- You get zinc fumes floating up into your face while welding the floors. Use a good respirator.

- Welding down by the pedals is difficult because it’s hard to reach things. Sitting with my knees dangling out the door and back toward the shift lever area is a good base position for working on the pedal area.

- Articles and books warn about welding near the wiring harness. This may matter for gas welding, but MIG welding into 3/16 inch holes produces very little heat if you keep moving around. The metal away from the weld is not even warm to the touch.

- There are about 300 welds involved. I now appreciate why you see those shots of robotic welders on auto production lines.

And no, I don't work for NASA.
Mark Dionne
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Mark Dionne
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#55 Post by Mark Dionne »

Boom, boom...I had the engine running today for about a minute. Then I noticed oil leaking from the top of the engine.

Before that, it was gas leaking from the carbs and fuel pump. Before that, it was a dead starter.

So now the engine must come out again for new oil cooler seals. Here's how I learned to pull engines:
After 9 years, this car really wants to get out of the garage and take a bath.
After 9 years, this car really wants to get out of the garage and take a bath.
I lift from above with a comealong so there are no jacks in the way. The wire loops hide behind the bumper when not in use. There are jackstands up by the torsion bar area for safety. Make sure the bumper supports are solid before trying this method. When it's out, the engine rolls on a homemade dolly about 9 inches high.

Both of the top engine bolts are drilled for a springy wire that keeps them from turning and also pushes them backward through the bell housing so you can get nuts on them:
Notice the hickory nut shells that chipmunks left in the bottom of the clutch housing.
Notice the hickory nut shells that chipmunks left in the bottom of the clutch housing.
With this setup, one person can get the engine out or in under 30 minutes. My dad and I have done this at least 50 times for Porsches and VWs.
Last edited by Mark Dionne on Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mark Dionne
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Jim Nelson
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#56 Post by Jim Nelson »

That spring wire idea is a really, really good one.....

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Mark Dionne
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#57 Post by Mark Dionne »

I finally drove the car, for the first time in 9 years! All work was done by me except for sandblasting the rims and bending one piece of 2.5 inch pipe.
Note that door is not shut tight
Note that door is not shut tight
The left door works perfectly and has an unchanged parallel rear gap that is a bit wider than ideal. The right door has the same ugly rear gap that it started with. My worries about the car getting bent during my work were unfounded.

Major items for Phase II
New carpets
Replace kingpins and linkpins
Rebuild engine
Fix heat
Re-cover convertible top and replace headliner
Minor rust repair and clean up areas around transmission and engine
Repair doors, areas fore and aft of doors, and rocker panels
Exterior paint
Mark Dionne
1965 Cabriolet 160920

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Bill Sargent
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#58 Post by Bill Sargent »

Well done Mark! I am jealous sitting here in Beijing and wish I had a 356 to work on. But the weather here sure beats Alaska! Mid 70s today. High in Anchorage will be low 40s. Closest I get to a 356 is 2 wheels - see pic. Keep up the great work on the car.
Road bike ride NE of Beijing.
Road bike ride NE of Beijing.
Regards,

Bill Sargent
#151489 59A Cab - Faux Cam
#159176 64C Cab
#460603 67 912
904 clone in the works

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Mark Dionne
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​Notes on replacing king pins

#59 Post by Mark Dionne »

After many months of restoration, I took my 65 Cab to get my State Inspection Sticker. I thought everything ​would be​ fine ​since​ the horn and lights worked, but then the guy rolled out his floor jack and I suddenly got a bad feeling. He found some slop in the front wheels and rejected me. I tried to explain to him that the car does not have ball joints, and the wiggle would not happen when there was weight on the wheels, but I didn't argue too much because I wanted to fix it correctly anyway. Here are a few things I learned.

I took things apart, and found that dad, who ​drove the car​ daily​ for many years, had fixed this problem ​long ago by adding shims at the bottom side of the kingpins​​.
Shim for passing state inspection.
Shim for passing state inspection.
These were made from link pin spacers​ ​(​linkpins and kingpins are both 18 mm diameter). The narrowest part of the cutout in this spacer is about 15mm, allowing it to snap into place. ​ Note that the weight of the car is not resting on this shim when is is installed at the bottom of the king pin. This is the easy way to get an inspection sticker.

The link pin bushings have to come out first, and my ​antique​ bench arbor press did them easily. A hammer and the correct size socket would also work. The king pins are known to be very tight, but I got them out (and back in) by grabbing the stub axle in a vice and using a 3 pound hammer.

Here are some tools that dad made for this job.
Tools for pressing out king pins.
Tools for pressing out king pins.
On the right is a support to put in the link pin bushing holes when pressing out very tight king pins to keep the link pin holes from going out-of-round or even collapsing​.

The old king pins and their bushings had virtually no wear, but did have some pitting from corrosion. The old fiber thrust washers were only about 2mm thick, compared to the new ones which are 4mm. That is where all the wiggle was coming from. With the new fiber washers, the stub axle fit snugly into the suspension arm link on both sides of the car and there was no need for a different thickness metal thrust washer or any shims.

One suspension arm link (the casting with 4 bushings in it) was a bit worn at the outside of one link pin bushing. I considered replacing it with one from a VW. The part number is the same, but metal would need to be milled off at the inboard side of each link pin. I also noticed that the opening for the stub axle was about 4mm different, such that the front of the car would end up sitting 4mm lower with the VW part. I ended up living with the old Porsche part.

I bought a custom reamer for the king pin bushings. It went through by hand in about 2 minutes and made a nice smooth finish.​ If anyone in the Boston area wants to borrow it, let me know.​

At the bottom side of the king pins there is an o-ring which I could not find at any of the usual suppliers. I bought some 1-1/16 by 3/32 rings on eBay which fit nicely. I got a bag of 20, enough for many lifetimes, so if you want a pair let me know. I think this mainly provides some back-pressure when you pump in grease.

I was surprised to find that the new "German" link pins, from a supplier at the end of the alphabet, had needle bearings. They also had shims that were poorly stamped, with burrs that kept them from stacking together tightly. The spiral grooves around the link pins did not extend out far enough, making them difficult to install.

Despite ​lots of​ serious ​restoration ​work around the front suspension, including removal of the torsion bars, the 7mm offsets of the suspension arms were ​nearly​ perfect on both sides.

I now have a nice new inspection sticker. The old one was from 2003!​

(This writeup is from 2012).​
Mark Dionne
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Jim Liberty
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Re: 1965 Cabriolet Rejuvenation

#60 Post by Jim Liberty »

Mark, nice work. This is what this Forum is all about. I bet you have inspired a lot of guys with this thread. ..............................Jim.
Jim Liberty

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