Marks 64C

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M Penta
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Posts: 753
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 10:07 pm
Location: VT

Re: Marks 64 356C, picked up a 912 motor

#31 Post by M Penta »

Here are some projects that have slowed 356 progress over the past 5 years. All have since been sold/sacrificed so I can focus on just two now: the 356 and the 66 Dodge Van.

The 66 Dodge van is in very nice shape. It has a slant 6 and 3 on the tree, 42 K orig miles, runs great and is a simple/dependable vehicle to live with. This past Summer I installed a beautiful maple interior. It had no interior at all when I bought it, so it is much more user friendly now, and at least a little bit safer with 3 point belts and new brakes. I have everything to do a front disc swap, but the 11" drums actually do OK. It has been a fun vehicle for family outings and camping, we have taken it all over New England, almost entirely on back roads.
The camper is a 69 COX. Nice original shape, very light weight and tows well behind the van.

I had a very hard time letting go of the others, but it was just too much to care for them anymore (It was nice to delete the lengthy 'to do' lists when they sold!).

The MB wagon was my daily driver for years. I installed an 85 engine, 2:88 R end and swapped in a 4spd manual trans from a 240D. Getting rid of that auto was the best thing I ever did to that car. I ran it on vegetable oil for 200K miles, it paid for itself multiple times (I like to think so anyway). It was a fantastic car, but was showing it's age at 405K with many brutal VT winters.

The Audi 4000TQ with turbo engine swap was a fun car. I used it hard and had many difficult major repairs along the way. I ended up flipping it on it's side down an embankment. It survived it well, but was never the same to me. I don't miss working on it, and I still resent how much time/$ I spent on it. That car originally belonged to Bruno Kreibich, a pro rally driver from the 80's. Now it belongs to an avid hill climb racer, I hope to see it back out there again. Also a pic of my Audi 4000 rallycross car. That car took a merciless beating, and was very competitive in stock allwheel NER.


I bought the Samurai stock and built it into a very capable off roader. I rebuilt and swapped in a VW diesel (actually twice since I cracked first block when re torqueing head!), re geared, lockers, big wheel travel, ect. I think I touched every gear in the thing. It was a lot of fun, but all of the trails around me have been getting shut down, and I was tired of feeling like an outlaw every time I used it. A friend of mine bought it, and my kids really want me to buy it back!

The 71 Hilux was pretty rough, but ran well and is a great little truck (remember little trucks?). Another friend of mine has it now, sitting in an airplane hanger awaiting restoration.
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66 Dodge with 69 Cox camper.jpg
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Limerock trackside.jpg
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MB swap.jpg
4000TQ 4.jpg
Audi crash.jpg
4000 Rallycross car.jpg
Liam wants a ride.jpg
Last edited by M Penta on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:51 am, edited 12 times in total.

M Penta
356 Fan
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 10:07 pm
Location: VT

Re: Marks 64 356C, picked up a 912 motor

#32 Post by M Penta »

I briefly met the owners of these cars at Limerock, as I was about to pass out from heat exhaustion. These cars provided some much needed inspiration at a time that I was feeling completely overwhelmed with projects.
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Last edited by M Penta on Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.

M Penta
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Posts: 753
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 10:07 pm
Location: VT

Re: Marks 64 356C, advice on king pin rebuilding...

#33 Post by M Penta »

I have been reading this forum like crazy in an effort to learn more about these cars. While they are a relatively simple car, there are many details and tricks to know, learned only from experts here with years of experience. I am grateful to have access to such a vast database of knowledge!

Some updates on progress and current plans:

I plan to get the car entirely "finished" before making a decision on engine. The 912/S90 mystery engine I have runs fine and will most likely be installed as is for now.

Still not sure if I will go 12V, the 912 engine has 12V FW, generator and ignition so I will probably convert car to 12V (I need a starter anyway).

I removed the spindles today and noticed some vertical movement in the king pins, with very little (if any) lateral movement.

QUESTION: After reading about king pin replacement, I think this is best completed by an expert since I do not have the proper tools to do the job. Is there a recommended shop I can mail these assemblies out to for rebuild? In my search I did not find any reference to this. If so, what would be an average cost to get link pins and king pins inspected/rebuilt?


Happy Holidays!


Thanks,

Mark
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Last edited by M Penta on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:54 am, edited 13 times in total.

M Penta
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Posts: 753
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 10:07 pm
Location: VT

Re: Marks 64 356C; brakes and suspension.

#34 Post by M Penta »

Inventory of parts ready for cleaning, all in boxes for several years.

Pictured are original wheels, some 65 912 5.5 wheels and some old Avon tires I will use for storing the car. I recently picked up another set of 5.5s with new 185/65's which will go on the car when ready to drive.

Original engine stored under bench. I don't think it has ever been removed from car previously.
The 912 engine came with a header, but I would prefer using the stock muffler/heater boxes from original engine.
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Last edited by M Penta on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:55 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Marks 64 356C; brakes and suspension.

#35 Post by Vic Skirmants »

All 356s had the same number of teeth on the flywheel, therefore all starters are interchangeable. VW had "6 volt" and "12 volt" flywheels with different number of teeth. The 912 flywheel does not fit into a 356 trans case. Therefore your 912 engine probably has a 356 flywheel; unless major re-fitting was done to install the flywheel.
If your 912 engine has a 12 volt generator, how have you been running the car if the rest is still 6 volt?

M Penta
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 10:07 pm
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Re: Marks 64 356C; brakes and suspension.

#36 Post by M Penta »

Hi Vic,

I guess I was confused about the flywheels, I thought all 6V and 12V were different (porsche or VW). I was told that this 912 engine has the correct flywheel for a 356, but I need to confirm. This 912 engine has never been installed in the car, and I have never driven the car with either engine.
I can either install all the 6V stuff from original engine on the 912 (and then not have to buy a starter), or convert the car to 12V and use what is on the 912 engine. I would prefer not to steal this stuff from the original engine so that I can leave it 100% intact (other then exhaust), but would consider it if it makes most sense. I don't mind leaving the car 6V, even though 12V does have many advantages...

BTW, I think I have watched every vintage race vid of yours on you tube.

Thanks for the reply,

Mark
Last edited by M Penta on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

M Penta
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Posts: 753
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Re: Marks 64 356C; brakes and suspension.

#37 Post by M Penta »

Actually, "all that stuff" to swap over to 912 engine is actually just the generator, and i'd buy a new coil anyway. If the 6V generator and starter do not need major work, and the flywheel is correct for 6V starter, I'll probably just stick with 6V. I know a good starter/generator shop, and have some experience with this myself, so refurbishment of these items should not be a problem. Part of me really wants to keep it 6V anyway.
Last edited by M Penta on Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

M Penta
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Re: Marks 64 356C; brakes and suspension.

#38 Post by M Penta »

I got a quote for kingpin/linkpin and control arm rebuild, entire assembly cleaned, measured and rebuilt with proper jigs and tooling by reputable 356 specialist. $650 if no major work is required. More then I was hoping, but not surprised considering the amount of time involved.

Mr Skirmants, do you offer this service?
Last edited by M Penta on Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Vic Skirmants
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Re: Marks 64 356C; brakes and suspension.

#39 Post by Vic Skirmants »

Sorry; I have retired from all the small rebuild items. Transmissions and race engines only.
Vic

M Penta
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Re: Marks 64 356C; brakes and suspension.

#40 Post by M Penta »

Thanks Vic, I did not see it on your website but thought I would ask.

After further inspection, I plan to do the link pins myself and have a very good local machine shop do the king pins. It appears as though the link/king pins are ok but the thrust washers for king pins are loose. I will replace it all anyway.
Last edited by M Penta on Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

steverestelli
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Tag: 1961 Karmann Notchback
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Re: Marks 64 356C; brakes and suspension.

#41 Post by steverestelli »

I live in Barre, VT and I have a 1961 notchback with a 1965-C engine which was rebuilt a year and a half ago. I have an excellent 356 mechanic here in Barre if you get overwhelmed. If you pass through this way look me up, and I will take you for a ride to further entice you to get on this project.
The 2016 Porsche Parade is being held at the Jay Peak Resort this summer, so you need to get moving.
Here is my facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/stephen.restelli
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1st.place.newport.8.3.2014.jpg
1961 356B T5 Karmann Hardtop #200279 Sports Coupe named "Carmine"
2nd & 4th Owner of this car 1970-73 found again on Ebay in 2013 & bought it back 128K miles
 

steverestelli
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Posts: 410
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Tag: 1961 Karmann Notchback
Location: Barre, Vermont, USA
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Re: Marks 64 356C; brakes and suspension.

#42 Post by steverestelli »

FYI
Governor Shumlin drives his beautiful 1965 SC cabriolet occasionally around here. So there are a few around VT.
1961 356B T5 Karmann Hardtop #200279 Sports Coupe named "Carmine"
2nd & 4th Owner of this car 1970-73 found again on Ebay in 2013 & bought it back 128K miles
 

M Penta
356 Fan
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 10:07 pm
Location: VT

Re: Marks 64 356C; brakes and suspension.

#43 Post by M Penta »

Thanks Steve, I sure hope to have it on the road for that event! Maybe its time to think about a home equity loan...

I know the car you are talking about, had no idea it was Gov Shumlins, That is really interesting!

Thanks for the tip on knowledgeable shop, good to know.

I am in Bethel area, shoot me a PM if ever coming down this way.

Nice to know of another 356er close by, I have heard of you/your car. In fact, I did reply to your CL ad when you were looking for an engine. I was considering selling the 912 engine, but fortunately I did not get a response (since I would have regretted selling it)!

I just read your posts, nice car and great story!

Thanks,

Mark

M Penta
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Posts: 753
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 10:07 pm
Location: VT

Re: Marks 64 356C; brakes and suspension.

#44 Post by M Penta »

Steve,

Can this shop do appraisals? I would like to try to get a reasonable appraisal prior to registering the car. As I'm sure you are aware, VT bases tax on NADA. They do not even distinguish between sunroof or other important factors which I think is absurd. It is going to be a difficult tax check to write to DMV, so trying to do better with an appraisal!

I'm surprised I do not know this guy, or maybe I do and did not realize he was in Barre.

Thanks,

Mark
Last edited by M Penta on Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

steverestelli
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Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:42 pm
Tag: 1961 Karmann Notchback
Location: Barre, Vermont, USA
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Re: Marks 64 356C; brakes and suspension.

#45 Post by steverestelli »

I see on the news today that the Governor was now married again. I hope he signed a pre nuptial in regards to his 356.
I bet he will bring it to the 2016 Porsche Parade. It will be amazing to see thousands of Porsche cars driving all around our beautiful green mountains this coming summer.
I sent you a PM with my contact information.

NADA guide says $63,300 now for low book. This is what the Vermont DMV will tax you on. I went through this 2 years ago, and you pay the sales tax on that amount. Then you get a form and take it to a Registered Vermont Car dealer to do an appraisal. The longer you take to do this the higher your taxable value will be, especially if you complete the build and put the car on the road.
I would suggest that you register it as an antique (smaller registration fee), then pay the tax. After you pay the tax you can take a form to your closest car dealer who will value the car just as it sits now, which should create a rebate check that will be sent back to you. Call me and I will tell you my experience with this process.
1961 356B T5 Karmann Hardtop #200279 Sports Coupe named "Carmine"
2nd & 4th Owner of this car 1970-73 found again on Ebay in 2013 & bought it back 128K miles
 

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