356 Project: '58 coupe #104006

Share progress on your 356 related project or full restoration with others!
Message
Author
David Gensler
356 Fan
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:29 pm
Location: New Mexico

#46 Post by David Gensler »

Hope everyone had a great 4th of July, and proudly flew their flags!

Been a while since I posted. Need to get back in the swing of things. Busy summer! Delighted to see the growing number of project threads. Have already picked up many useful ideas from seeing the work of others. In my opinion, a "Projects" or "Metalwork" forum is clearly needed on 356Talk. It could easily stand on its own. Oh well, maybe I am in the minority.

Tunnel repair time! The tunnel of 104006 was a disaster (big surprise)! It had been "repaired" first by some unknown fellow adding a reinforcing strip of metal along the sides. Sort of a curving buttress. I had removed some of this early on. Later the "restoration expert" made some attempts to cover up some of the holes along the lower edge. It was of course still attached to the "new" floor pan, which had been applied underneath the remains of the original floor, creating a perfect environment for rust in the intervening space. Also, I discovered that the tunnel was "free-floating at the front. It wasn't attached to the front bulkhead. Not much better at the rear. And, it wasn't in the center of the car! Finally, some big dents in the topside made it clear that the wiring harness could never be successfully installed in the car. The tube it must travel through was partially collapsed. Time for some changes.

Image
Repairing the tunnel ledge is complicated by the fact that there is all this stuff inside there! There is just a narrow little band where welding can be done without affecting the internal tubes. I sliced off everything below this line and started fresh.


Image
Oops, out of order. Heres what I was starting with.

Image
First order of business after clearing away old metal was to establish correct tunnel location. Measure, measure, measure. Small repair pieces were welded to the upper forward ends of the tunnel, matching the curvature of the upper surface. Each of these had a tab which then got spot welded to the vertical bulkhead brace.

Image
A piece of moderately heavy angle iron was clamped between the front and rear ledge to guide the tunnel flange repairs. From here on, it was pretty straightforward. Just a little tedious. Work a short section at a time to avoid warpage. Placed the formed oversize flange in place and trimmed as I went along with a small air body saw, always being careful to not cut anything inside the tunnel.

Image
A small recess has to be formed for the transverse floor tube. The only interesting part of the tunnel repair. Formed this into the repair flange before making the repairs. Fit the floor in place, and formed the piece to fit.

Image
Slice, form, weld.

Image
Finished repairs over the transverse tube area. Note that weld bead for flange repair has to "wander". The location of stuff inside the tunnel guided the location of the repair, not what was rusty and what wasn't.

Image
Detail shot of the front tunnel repair. Backside of the butt weld can be seen just below clutch cable. All the controls were fitted during this portion of the repair to make certain that everything entered the tunnel correctly.

Image
Completed ledge, bulkhead, and tunnel repairs towards front of car. Really pleased with things at this point. Its all square and correct. Floor slips readily into place and everything lines up like it should.

Image
Same stuff towards the rear of the car. A mountain of work to get it to this stage, but worth it.

Thanks,
DG
David Gensler

David Gensler
356 Fan
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:29 pm
Location: New Mexico

#47 Post by David Gensler »

Been too long since I posted! Got busy with work and travel. Then there is the new roof on the house. Thats a story that is even more twisted and frustrating than restoring 104006!

Oh well. No resto photos to put up today. But some general comments on welding equipment. I've noticed that this is a common theme on 356 Talk, so I'd like to share my experiences.

I started with a very inexpensive MIG. 110v, 70/90 amp. Bought from Home Depot nearly 20 years ago. Believe it or not, it was not too bad. I could weld sheet metal together, perhaps a little crudely, but satisfactorily for the occasional job I did. Lots of grinding and finish work was always required. This is what I started in on 104006 with.

Doing a 356 will really improve your welding skills in a hurry. Early on, I realized that the little Home Depot machine was inconsistent. The weld would start poor, get nice for a few seconds, then get poor again. Why? Initially the weld wasn't properly shielded. So, I made a little modification to the welder. A switch was added on the panle that allowed me to start the gas flow manually. I'd flick it on a second or two before starting the weld. May seem dumb, but it really made the welds much nicer when starting. Also bought a narrower tip, which helped focus flow on the work. The welds still got crappy later on. spotty and splotchy. A little more investigation revealed that the motor controlling the wire feed received its power from the general transformer. As the weld and machine heated up, power to the drive motor was changing. The wire feed rate was inconsistent. A separate power supply was installed for the wire feed motor, resulting in two AC plugs to stick in the will for my MIG. Sounds goofy I know, but the little Home Depot MIG really worked pretty smooth after these two modifications. I think I still have less than $300 in this machine. technique changed too. I only use the high heat setting, use the smallest wire I can get locally (0.023), and weld only in relatively short bursts. Get good penetration and nice smooth welds now on 18-22ga metal. No hard "worms", no hairy "bristles", much less grinding and finishing than I once did.

Early on with 104006 I wondered about spot welding. Seemed like a great idea. Its how our cars were originally assembled. Was in harbor freight one day, and they had this 220v pinch-type spot welder on sale. Bought it. Really cool. Worked great, made great welds......the first few dozen or so anyway. Then I pulled the trigger and nothing happened. Set it on the floor, under the car. There was a sharp electrical sizzle, a wisp of smoke and......the darn thing burst into flames! Dragged it out from under the car by the cord and watched it blaze away. A few days later I took it apart. Made in some former Soviet province (not China!). The transformer was held in place by two wooden pegs, which appeared to be hand-whittled twigs! So much for harbor freight. You get what you pay for.

I stopped in at the local welders supply house to but a Miller spot welder. No 220 units in stock, but he had a nice used 120v unit. Bought it. Worked OK. Used it a lot, but always a little unhappy. Needed more current. The lower voltage put too much heat into the tongs, which tended to reduce the welding current and required lengthy cool down periods.

One day I stumbled across a website for HTP Welding (www.usaweld.com). They had an incredibly cool looking spot welder. $3500+, way too expensive for me. They did have an interesting looking 220V handheld unit for much less, about $600. I bought one. Its a gem! Makes beautiful and strong welds. Consistently. Every time. Triggers automatically as the tongs clamp, for a specified time. Clever little indicator to set the clamping pressure. They have a nice array of tongs too, for different situations. Made in Italy. I assume there are no hand-whittled pegs inside it, though judging by some of the coachwork I've seen on Ferraris, maybe I shouldn't be so certain! In any case, an excellent tool, well worth the price for anyone working on 356's.

Another spot welder! In between the Miller and the HTP welder, I acquired a Lenco machine. Heard about this from a 356Talk respondent. A single-sided spot induction welder. Quite expensive new. Found several used ones on EBay. Finally found an oldie but goodie for $175. Shipping cost me another $80. These are interesting devices. Tricky to use, but when all is right, make an excellent weld, working from one side of the panel only. I have found that tip cleanliness and shape are critical, as is good contact between the panels. The Lenco machine is VERY powerful, and will instantly vaporize a hole if the upper panel is not in solid contact with the lower. Also I found that clamping one lead to the work, and using the other trigger lead to just make one weld at a time gives better, if somewhat slower, results. Noted Justin Rio's comments about using a Lenco machine to duplicate the appearance of factory spot welds after plug welding. It will certainly do this well, but when used with care it can make welds just as strong as resistance welds. BTW, I have spent, and still occasionally do spend, a fair amount of time trying to break spot welds I've made. Gives a good feel for what is working and what is not.

Gas welding! My friend Lloyd was watching me working a tight and awkward spot one day with the MIG. He said I should be using a torch. I said that's crazy, no one uses torches these days, and besides, it takes years of experience. He said that was bunk. He went down the road, brought his back, and in a few minutes cleanly melted the inside corner together that I had been trying to get with the MIG. Smooth, clean, no mess. Looked like the factory had done it! I bought a gas torch. A small one, per Lloyds advice. Then he started teaching me to use it. He is good with it, I'm not. But, practice, practice, practice. Burned a lot of hair and skin. Set a few things on fire. It became kind of fun. Coaxing metal to melt and flow together is neat. Furthermore, being able to see it happen with a gas torch (no matter how dark the lens, you can't really see what is happening inside an electrical arc) makes you a better welder with other machines. After a while I got pretty comfortable with it. Not skilled by any means, but comfortable. There are so many places on a 356 that cannot be done any other way than with a gas torch. Flying in the face of conventional wisdom, if I could only have one welding tool, I can see that the gas torch would be the one to have.

Evolution to the TIG. One day I got an urge. Why not try a TIG? Went to Lloyd again. He has one and is quite good with it (he built a replica Lotus 7 from a pile of tubing and aluminum sheet). He said keep learning with the gas torch if I wanted to go with a TIG. I did. One day I went on line to that usaweld website. Spur-of-the-moment decided to order a machine. Expensive. Over $2000! Yikes! But it arrived and I started playing with it. Very interesting. A lot to know. A lot to juggle. TIG welding seems to require you have 3 (or mor) hands. It is very much like having an electric version of a gas torch. Still not very good with it. But I like it! VERY clean welds, when all goes right. You can stick a couple of pieces of sheet together with barely a ripple along the seam. Or you can burn right through them and make a mess. I'm at the stage now where its beautiful 50% of the time, a mess the other 50%. Have now used it for much of the battery box of 89379. I can see in the future I will be using it more and more. Must keep practicing, and starting to think I need to find some aluminum to weld.

So thats the summary of my amateur welding world, and the evolution that has accompanied my work on 104006. Probably of no great interest to most of you out there. I just like to write about my experiences for my own mental well being. I don't expect to ever be a skilled welder, but I have gotten to the point of being comfortable welding. I find that ALL these machines have their place and usefulness for a 356 project. I still pull out the el-cheapo, much modified, home depot MIG for certain jobs. But, if I could only have one, it would be the gas torch.

Maybe next week I'll find some more metalwork photos to post.

DG
David Gensler

User avatar
Vic Skirmants
Registry Hall of Fame
Posts: 9303
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:02 pm
Location: SE Michigan
Contact:

#48 Post by Vic Skirmants »

Great piece, David. Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

User avatar
Sterling Vaden
356 Fan
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:32 pm
Tag: Where is everybody going?
Location: North Cackalacky
Contact:

#49 Post by Sterling Vaden »

Very informative. I have a cheap mig as well. My 14 year old son is interested in welding. I sent your comments his way.

SV
SV
356*D = 912
http://picasaweb.google.com/456311

User avatar
Tom Perazzo
356 Fan
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:28 am
Tag: It's only metal...
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
Contact:

#50 Post by Tom Perazzo »

Hi David,
Nice post as usual! I'm in the market for the Lenco spot welder also, however I don't have a clue what it looks like. I've only heard good things about it here on this forum.
I would be interested in seeing a picture of the machine and a few sample welds. For that matter it would be fun to see pictures of all your different weld methods.
Like you, I don't consider my self to be an expert welder, but I will post some of my pics of MIG and TIG welds and all the machine settings. I'm sure I could learn from you. I actually prefer the TIG whenever possible, but that usually means perfectly fitting panels and a rotisserie for 356 work.
Maybe a new welding thread is needed as a sticky or something in the articles section.
Cheers,
Tom Perazzo

Justin Rio
356 Fan
Posts: 907
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:45 pm
Contact:

WELDING

#51 Post by Justin Rio »

Hi David,

I do agree, gas welding is fun. I've never TIG welded but it must be very similar (just without the excessive heat) by introducing the material by hand. (similar to Soldering too I suppose.) a TIG welder along with an Engilsh wheel, power hammer, tubing bender and a plasma cutter are all on my wish list if I could stop myself from buying Corvette or 356 parts for more than a week. A little trick I started doing for a gas welded effect (like on my battery box) is to MIG weld the area first, grind down any excess weld then remelt this weld with my torch. looks like a gas weld. This just allows me to concentrate on the seam without having to also introduce the weld material. I'm a typical guy; I can't multi-task :wink: Like you I'm just a hobbiest welder. I'll consider myself a real pro when I'm qualified to weld-on bungs for tanker cars that carry Chlorine gas and such like my buddy Warren does.
Look forward to more pics of your projects!

Best regards, Justin

David Gensler
356 Fan
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:29 pm
Location: New Mexico

#52 Post by David Gensler »

Thanks Vic, Sterling, Tom, and Justin. I'm happy that at least a few find my jibberish entertaining.

Here are some pictures of the machines. Especially for Tom who wondered what the Lenco machine looked like

Image
The Lenco. An oldie, but it works very well. Don't know the exact vintage. Opened it up to clean it when I got it. Very well made. Surprised to find thorough schematics inked on the inside of the enclosure panels, in case anything ever needs to be repaired. A nice touch that is rarely seen today.

Image
The Lenco paddles (tongs, tips, whatever you want to call them) Have only about a 5 foot lead, and very stiff, which makes them awkward. You get a good physical workout using this device!

Image
This is the old 120 volt Miller spot welder. Not overly impressed with this. Did the job for a while, but not the greatest gadget. Part of the problem is that it is just too weak. But also the clamping and trigger mechanism are pretty crude. Its permanently retired now.

Image
The HTP Quickspot that replaced the Miller spot welder. This little guy kicks ***! I'm a convert. New set of tongs on it that I just got to install rocker panels with. Lets you get in under the door sill edge.

Image
And here is the ancient low buck MIG. Works pretty well for what it is, and how I use it. No need to get anything fancier. You can see the two switches I added to the panel. Toggle switch turns gas flow on/off. Wire wont feed unless gas flow is on now. Pushbutton switch advances the wire without gas flow, just for maintenance and trimming.

Image
This is the TIG machine. Lots of stuff to adjust. Biggest problem for me now is remembering what is what on the controls. Supposedly you can program a variety of different welding settings into this thing. Need to look into this and figure out how. Very compact and lightweight unit. Lloyds old Miller TIG is about the size of a VW! The HTP machine does everything his does (and more I think), but is very compact and lightweight. I can pick it up and carry it around.

No photo of the torch! Victor 100 series, with "00", "0", and "1" tips. Usually use the "0" tip. Justin, I do use this at times just as you describe, to finish off some of my MIG welds. In places where the MIG gets a little iffy, hard to reach spots and inside corners, I use the torch to puddle the MIG bead into the metal. Easier and quicker than grinding, and 100% penetration.

Hopefully this is not too far off-topic for the list monitors.
DG
David Gensler

User avatar
Joris Koning
356 Fan
Posts: 2518
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:38 pm
Location: Netherlands

#53 Post by Joris Koning »

Hi David,

Any updates?

Thanks,

Joris

David Gensler
356 Fan
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:29 pm
Location: New Mexico

#54 Post by David Gensler »

Hi Joris,
Thanks for asking. Unfortunately, no progress this summer on either car. Just have not had the time. Going to have to spend a weekend soon doing car work, just to get my sanity back. Work will probably be on 89379, nose and fender replacement. 104006 is tucked away in storage, and I don't think I will get it out until next year sometime. There are a few past activities I have yet to post. Will see if I can't find some photos soon.
Take care,
DG
David Gensler

Post Reply