356 Project: '58 coupe #104006

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David Gensler
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#16 Post by David Gensler »

More fabricated bits, and installation starts.

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This si the beginning of fabrication for a repair piece for the bottom and inside of the rear frame. Took several attempts to get the shape right. Measurement, but considerable trial/error


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Here's the finished piece after hammering and welding, but before trimming and heat tube installation

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Here is a trial fit of this rather complex repair piece. The heat tube, inner frame rail, and inner layer of outer frame rail have been welded together. Lots of test fitting of the individual pieces, and tack welding allowed the alignment of everything to be correct.

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The assembly after welding in place. Was able to trim back to good, solid metal just (barely!) in front of the torsion bar cover mounts. The flange at the leading edge of the repair piece was spot welded to the new inner longitudinal as per original construction.

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Repair piece fabricated for the outer layer of the outer frame rail, and the outer portion of the heat tube. Small welded tab left on heat tube, whose purpose will be explained later.

DG
David Gensler

David Gensler
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#17 Post by David Gensler »

Mike,
The other way to look at is if we combined our cars we might have one good one! What is your SN and color? 104006 was originally Meissen/Tan.

I think your project will not flex much, though the brace can't hurt anything. I had mine bolted down to the dolly most of the time. Even when loose though, I was amazed at how rigid the car was. Even when the entire left side was cut away, it really wouldn't move. These are amazingly strong assemblies. The guys at Porsche were certainly some brilliant engineers.

Get some more pics up!
DG
David Gensler

David Gensler
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#18 Post by David Gensler »

Herrick,
Glad you are enjoying the posts. I also really enjoy the project threads. In addition to picking up lots if tips and ideas, seeing the work others have gone through has helped keep me plodding along on my own stuff. Have not seen one for a while, but I really liked the "foam car" posts. Although it was sobering to see the hour tally he was keeping.

Now there are project threads scattered in multiple 356 talk forums. Maybe some day the 356 powers that be will see fit to consolidate these in one place.
DG
David Gensler

Justin Rio
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#19 Post by Justin Rio »

Hi David,

Very nice metal work!! I can appeciate all the time and effort that went into building that part! very, very nice!!!

Justin

David Gensler
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#20 Post by David Gensler »

Justin,
Right back at you! Keep up the stream of neat metalwork photos.
DG
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Mike Klapac
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#21 Post by Mike Klapac »

David Gensler wrote:Mike,
The other way to look at is if we combined our cars we might have one good one! What is your SN and color? 104006 was originally Meissen/Tan.

I think your project will not flex much, though the brace can't hurt anything. I had mine bolted down to the dolly most of the time. Even when loose though, I was amazed at how rigid the car was. Even when the entire left side was cut away, it really wouldn't move. These are amazingly strong assemblies. The guys at Porsche were certainly some brilliant engineers.

Get some more pics up!
DG
I'm 104472. Originally Aquamarine Blue-Red Interior. Then silver, red, orange and now bare metal.

Don't mean to hijack...Just find it interesting that we are on the "same path" so to speak. I used hammer forms for my rear torsion sections as well. You're really doing beautiful work.
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I'm going to start a thread for 104472 in this forum before too long. Looks like a great way to keep a photo journal of progress. Keep it up!!

David Gensler
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#22 Post by David Gensler »

More on the L longitudinal fabrication. I had a new fabricated inner longitudinal, and fabricated pieces to repair the front part of the rear frame. But how to get all the parts in the right place? The new inner longitudinal was located in space horizontally with spacers (OK, 1x4's) from the R longitudinal and the floor. These were cut to match a couple of good cars I measured, and the new floor. Doing things a bit backwards from the norm, I cut my new floor to the correct shape and size (using measurements and templates from cars with original floors) and then made the L inner longitudinal to fit. At this point, I didn't worry about the hingepost, and just left it hanging in space. Vertically, the new inner longitudinal was made to match the elevation of of the R long. at front and rear.

I borrowed from the ancient Egyptians to set levels. If it worked for the pyramids, it must be good for a 356! Clear plastic tubing (1/2" from home depot) was attached to the legs of my dolly, and also looped between corresponding points on the L and R longs. The tubing was filled with water, tinted red with food coloring. This provided a quick and reliable visual reference for elevations. Unfortunately, I apparently didn't take any photos during the locating process.

Once I was sure it was in the correct spot, the hingepost was moved to the correct position, vertically and horizontally through a similar process. It had been way out of place. Too low, and much too close to the right hingepost. Wooden spacers were used again to get the separation from the R hingepost correct. One at the top and one at the bottom (did I mention that the cowl was removed, allowing easy access to the top of the hingepost?). Also, to move the the hingepost, it was necessary to cut the incorrect overlap weld earlier noted on the inner fender. A floor jack was used to then lift the hingepost to the correct elevation. It was actually pretty gratifying to see how nicely everything lined up at this point!

New inner longitudinal was joined to the hingepost first, then the fabricated repair pieces were used to bridge the gap from the inner long. to the rear frame members. New heat tube went in before installing the inner long. and this helpe to secure and locate things with the hingepost, also had to make the little floor vent part of the heat tube before competing the install. Various photos follow.
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Fitting inner long, welding to hingepost. 1" steel pipe is bracing/spacer from rear bulkhead to front bulkhead to maintain correct distance.

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Test fit the heat tube. Floor vent not made yet.

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The floor vent from the heat tube

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The rear frame member. This area gets covered by the "sheath", which I guess will be the subject of the next post. Also wound up making a repair to the vertical wall in front of the rear seat pan.

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The outer repair piece is installed here. This piece extends a little farther forward than the original, and overlaps the inner long. Thought this was a reasonable change to make for extra strength. A little awkward to get access to weld behind the heat tube. The outer piece was plug welded to the inner, and the edge was welded too. Made this area very strong and rigid.

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Looking down into the finished rear frame area repair. Outer longitudinal has been applied now. A slight improvement from what it looked like a few months back.

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Almost done, starting to look like a car again. Well, not really, thats just wishful thinking. But maybe a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.

DG
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Mike Klapac
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#23 Post by Mike Klapac »

DG,

How are you making the dimples in the surrounds for the heater tubes? Routering out a hammer form?

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#24 Post by David Gensler »

Mike,
Good guess on the dimples. Very close, but not quite. A piece of thin oak plywood. I cut out the shape with a saber saw. I bevel the edges of the cutout (the positive) with a belt sander, then glue the cutout to a scrap of 1x whatever. Then I glue the other piece (the negative) to another 1 x scrap. slip the metal between the pos/neg and squeeze in my bench vice. Have made several shapes this way, with varying degrees of success.

Routing out the shape and hammering would probably be simpler and I think will be in my future.

An easy method which I used for the piece in the photo below was to simply go around the edge of the opening with an air flanging tool. This added strength to the part, and caused no distortion.
DG
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Justin Rio
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bulkheads

#25 Post by Justin Rio »

hey Mike,

Here are some shots of a 57 speedster I did a full chassis repair on a few years ago. i wanted those two main bulheads stable under the jack spur. You know how they are always twisted and pushed over to one side when open up the old longitudinal. I welded this plate to the bottom of the pair and it created a really strong box for the new spur to work against. I even popped this hole in it for moisture and lightness. Wished I would have thought of it sooner. live and learn! Keep up the great work!

Justin
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David Gensler
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#26 Post by David Gensler »

Justin, that's a simple and clever idea. Bravo!
DG
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Vic Skirmants
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#27 Post by Vic Skirmants »

David, I just discovered your project post. You are truly a genious, and my welding hat is off to you. Even Ron Roland would be impressed.

Etienne Kerkhoffs
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#28 Post by Etienne Kerkhoffs »

Hi David, very nice to see more pictures after reading your story quite some time ago. You really know how to handle your new TIG welding machine. Outstanding work! Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to updates.
Etienne Kerkhoffs
1958 356A T2 Sunroof Coupe

David Gensler
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#29 Post by David Gensler »

Vic,
Thank you for your kind words. This is just old-fashioned hardwork. Real genius would be figuring out how to keep 356 race motors intact at roughly twice the RPM's originally envisioned by the Porsche engineers.
DG
David Gensler

David Gensler
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#30 Post by David Gensler »

Hi Etienne,
Good to hear from you. Have been wondering how your project is coming along. You should get your own Project 356 thread up and going on here!

These are all older photos, and I think you've seen many of them before. Sadly, there has been little progress for about 18 months now. Got sidetracked the Roadster, and there have been a constant string of home improvement projects "suggested" by my wife. The TIG has been fun. Still learning it. Sometime I should comment on the evolution of welding machines that has accompanied my progress on the coupe.
DG
David Gensler

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