Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

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Daryl Bertram
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Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#1 Post by Daryl Bertram » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:06 pm

I'm cleaning up the fuel shutoff valve on '54 cab 60441 (check out the debris in the cup) and am hoping someone knows the diameter and a source for the copper main and reserve tubes that I managed to break off in the valve base. Thank you!
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Neil Schlabaugh
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Re: Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#2 Post by Neil Schlabaugh » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:12 am

Daryl, I have the same one from Walt ( '53 ) The stand tubes are 4mm. I also had one from a C that I took measurements just for the fun of it, it is 6mm. I would try McMaster for the tubing.

If for some reason you cant get yours sorted out Wolfsburg West has fuel cocks with same thread pitch at the tank and stand tube dia ( 4 mm ) but the outlet port is 6mm rather than 8mm like Porsche so if you go that route you might have to make a "adapter" to go to the larger fuel line. I have not tried the one Stoddard lists in their catalog but it appears to be the same one as WW sells. Maybe someone here can confirm Stoddards outlet dia.

Neil

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Daryl Bertram
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Re: Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#3 Post by Daryl Bertram » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:24 pm

Thank you Neil! I was able to locate a 3 foot length of 5/32 inch (3.97 mm) copper tube at the local HobbyTown for $3.89. Next: carefully remove the remnant bits in the shutoff valve. You're right about the outlet tube on Stoddard's shutoff valve; it's 6 mm. Much thanks for getting me to the next step. :-)

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Neil Schlabaugh
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Re: Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#4 Post by Neil Schlabaugh » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:45 pm

Great!! Thanks for confirming that the Stoddard piece has the small 6 mm outlet.

Neil

Donald Zingg
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Re: Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#5 Post by Donald Zingg » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:35 pm

Hi Daryl

Here are a few things to consider before you get too far along with your project.
First, the inlet tubes in the original P-356 fuel cock are brass, not copper.
The fuel cock inlet tube O.D. is 5mm for 1954 - 55 P-356 cars.
The bent main inlet tube extends 78mm out of the valve body - - The reserve tube extends 17mm.
When assembled there is no gap between the two inlet tubes. That leaves just enough room for the filter screen flange and fiber gaskets.
The filter screen for a 356A tank is too big around to fit through the hole in the bottom of the 356 fuel tank. The VW screen can usually work if the cork support inside the screen is modified to accommodate a 5mm inlet tube.
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Daryl Bertram
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Re: Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#6 Post by Daryl Bertram » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:57 pm

Hi Donald. Thanks for the info; the pics give a good visual. I misspoke about copper vs brass; the 3.97 mm tube I purchased is brass. It's good to know I have the correct metal. The fuel petcock on 60441 is definitely 4mm as is the Stoddard replacement which is for cabs up to 60815 and Coupes up to 53526. Any thoughts on removing the broken brass original tubes in the petcock? Careful drilling? Would I be able to slip a strain screen over the 4mm petcock tubes? Much thanks.
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Donald Zingg
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Re: Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#7 Post by Donald Zingg » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:16 pm

I've never dissected one to determine how the tubes are installed.
Do share the results of your repair work.
This filter screen should work fine - - http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/Detai ... 111209147A
Good luck!

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Daryl Bertram
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Re: Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#8 Post by Daryl Bertram » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:28 am

Thanks for the info on where to find a screen that fits. Much appreciated. I will post some pics of my efforts to fit the new tubes.

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Neil Schlabaugh
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Re: Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#9 Post by Neil Schlabaugh » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:33 am

Daryl, Just a note on repro screens. The ones we have gotten, Stoddard/Wolfsburg the Alum washer that the screen is crimped to is belled, not flat. We had problems with them sealing, so we made a tool. Its just a piece of heavy wall pipe that has the center opened up for the I.D. You slip it over the screen and tap it on a steel table and it flattens it out. Simple but effective. I don't know if anyone else has had that happen before, maybe they just keep cranking down the fuel cock. Soaking the red fiber washers in gas overnight seams to help to. We have a saying that everything is guilty until proven innocent, that is especially true for repro parts.

Donald, Thanks for the pics and clarification on stand tub dia. on later Pre-A's.

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Daryl Bertram
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Re: Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#10 Post by Daryl Bertram » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:39 pm

Thank you Neil. I will apply the pipe trick on the screen before assembly. Thank you to Donald as well; the info from both of you should help me in my quest to save the original petcock and have a screen to cover the tubes also. I'll post some pics of hopefully a successful tube replacement soon. :-)

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Daryl Bertram
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Re: Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#11 Post by Daryl Bertram » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:45 pm

An update on Pre-A 60441's fuel shutoff valve rebuild. I used a 9/64ths (3.57mm) drill bit to remove the broken off original brass tubes (4mm) in the valve base. Using the Registry search feature I pulled up Roy Mawbey's 2008 post on his '59 A valve rebuild. Thanks Roy! With that info (Roy posted some helpful pics) I took apart the valve and proceeded with scraping out the old rubber gasket. That's the dark crumbly stuff. Then unplugging the passages with tiny eyeglass screwdrivers and wires. Cleaned all areas using a Dremel with wire brush attachment. Previously the whole unit was soaked in lacquer thinner which helped to clean old resin off the outside but was useless on the passages. Using Donald Zingg's measurements I cut the 3.97mm brass tubing (with a bit more for seating in the valve base inlets) to have a 78mm main inlet and 17mm reserve. I used a rubber hammer to seat first the reserve tube followed by the main. A Pre-A rubber gasket (Roy's was cork for the later petcock), screen filter to cover the tubes, and gaskets for the cup and petcock top where it attaches to the tank are on order. I'll use Neil Schlabaugh's "pipe flattening the screen base technique" on final assembly. Thanks guys for all the great information!
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Jim Karaba
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Re: Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#12 Post by Jim Karaba » Wed May 01, 2019 9:12 pm

Great job, nice save on the original unit

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Daryl Bertram
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Re: Pre A fuel shutoff valve question.

#13 Post by Daryl Bertram » Wed May 01, 2019 9:34 pm

Thank you Jim. I'm happy to have been able to save the original unit with the help of experienced members here on the Forum. :-)

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