Speedo Question

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Martin Bruechle
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Speedo Question

#1 Post by Martin Bruechle »

Trying to figure out what speedometer and tach is needed in my 53. The 2 black Veigels ?
The stamped 10/52 (black rear housing) Speedo does not have a trip reset and is MPH. The cable goes straight out the back.

The speedometer that came in the car is Kilometers. It has a silver housing, can't read the ink date, trip reset and the cable comes out at a downward angle.

What is correct for a 53 ? Straight or down angle cable ?
The car was delivered in Germany not a USA model. Going to get a new KPH dial and bezel.

Thanks for your help. Martin
Last edited by Martin Bruechle on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Jules Dielen
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Re: Speedo Question

#2 Post by Jules Dielen »

what is the VIN, martin? very early MY 53 (vin 11xxx and 120xx) still had Veigel instruments, later had VDO. as far as i know they all had a trip reset, otherwise it would defeat the purpose of the trip odo. trip reset stem appeared both on the left and right side of the gauge and pointed pretty much straight down.
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Martin Bruechle
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Re: Speedo Question

#3 Post by Martin Bruechle »

507xx

6-22 53 Date

Martin Bruechle
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Re: Speedo Question

#4 Post by Martin Bruechle »

The 2 with the Sullivan speedo stickers came in my 53. The previous owner was going to install a 911 motor and the car came with sockets welded on and banana arms with early 911/912 rear brakes. That probably expains the 8000 RPM dial/face.

Need to send out a speedo and tach for bezels and faces. I think the black 8000 tach is a Viegal with a VDO face ?
It is missing the trip reset rod and knob.

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Jules Dielen
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Re: Speedo Question

#5 Post by Jules Dielen »

the chrome bezel tachometer is for a modern car. That is a Bt6 normal tach. The 'veigel' tach was modified with a partial A or B Carrera face. That can be easily fixed.

my vote would be the 2 with the black housings. Make them correct for your engine and have them change the gears in the odometer to record in KM! Look at the back of the speedo for a small spiral drive for the reset stem, there should be 2 small openings.

I believe 507xx still gets Veigel instruments so you are 99% there! :)
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Albert Haefner
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Re: Speedo Question

#6 Post by Albert Haefner »

507xx sure all large innstruments = Veigel, even a clock.
 

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Spencer Harris
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Re: Speedo Question

#7 Post by Spencer Harris »

Martin Bruechle wrote:What is correct for a 53 ? Straight or down angle cable ?
The car was delivered in Germany not a USA model.
Original VEIGEL gauges from 602XX, 1300N cabriolet completed 8/17/53 and delivered to Autohaus Krauss in Nürnberg 8/25/53. Car was special ordered for a US serviceman and equipped with MPH speedo. I've seen other early Euro delivery cars with KPH speedos so I suspect this was a dealer specified option. Both Speedo and Tach clearly stamped 7/53. Trip odometer reset is knurled knob - lower left.
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EDIT: Trip odometer reset photo after restoration of Veigel speedometer.
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Martin Bruechle
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Re: Speedo Question

#8 Post by Martin Bruechle »

Thanks for the info and pics. Going to take my 10.52 speedo and tach to Hollywood Speedo to see what they say.

Need to find out if the Veigel 10.52 tach with the 8000 RPM VDO dial was re-geared ?
Also it has flat glass and the speedo has concave.

Is concave glass available ?

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Spencer Harris
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Re: Speedo Question

#9 Post by Spencer Harris »

Pretty sure NH Speedo can supply concave glass for your Veigel. Hartmut has retired, but last dealing I had with Ralph was very positive. The knowledge and experience base is very solid.
info@nhspeedometer.com

'53 parts manual indicates several changes with the Model 52 cars in May of '52:
Speedometers were increased from 160 to 200 KPH or 120 MPH.
Different tachometers for the 1300 and 1500 engines are specified.
Dual scale oil temp gauges are listed - 'though I think dual-scales may have been available in earlier cars.
53 Parts Speedometer pp 83.JPG
53 Parts Tachometer pp 84.JPG
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Re: Speedo Question

#10 Post by Martin Bruechle »

Thanks Spencer. I went to N Hollywood Speedo today. Dropped off my Veigel 10.52 MPH Speedometer and the Veigel 10.52 Tach with the VDO 8000 RPM dial. The speedo is seized up. They are going to open them up and give me a estimate next week.

Told them I'd like to convert the Speedo to KPH since it is a Euro delivery car.
How do I figure out which motor it came with ? Does it say on the plaque by the glove box ? My COA says 1953 356/1500 Reutter

Is it a different tach for 1500 and 1500S or are they the same ?

From what I've learned my car was ordered by Neckermann, may have been the catalog guy that was famous in Germany.
There is books written about him and he was in the olympics for equestrian events and won 2 gold, 2 silver, 2 bronze medals.

I am not sure if it is the same Neckermann.

1960 Time magazine article.

BUSINESS ABROAD: The Mail Order King
Monday, Feb. 29, 1960

Into the West German mails this week went 3,500,000 copies of a 400-page catalogue that will set off a long-distance shopping spree in homes from Bremerhaven to Garmisch-Partenkirchen. The catalogue is the latest and fattest from Frankfurt's Neckermann Mail Order House, offers Germans 5,500 items at prices as much as 40% lower than those of competing retail stores. This year, for the first time, the orders (averaging nearly 40,000 a day) will pour into a massive new steel and concrete headquarters now being taken over by the expanding firm. Built for Neckermann...

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Spencer Harris
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Re: Speedo Question

#11 Post by Spencer Harris »

Probably this Neckermann (Josef) - may be the mail order catalog guy? Looks like he was pals with Ferry. Makes a good story anyway.
pah-6462438.jpg
Your original engine no. 31581 was a 1500N.
Motor 31581.JPG
http://www.356a.com/index.php

'53 Parts Supplement lists same tachometer for 1500 & 1500S (type 527 & 528) PN 356.70.017
Supplement Cover Page.JPG
53 Parts Supplement pp 24.JPG
Last edited by Spencer Harris on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Alan Hall
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Re: Speedo Question

#12 Post by Alan Hall »

The '53 tachs had different face markings for Normal or Super. The green area for a Normal started at 2500RPM and for a Super started at 3000RPM, The red area was different also. Aa photo of a '53 Veigel Super tach is attached.
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James Davies
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Re: Speedo Question

#13 Post by James Davies »

Yeah, your gauges would have been identical to Spencer's, except the face in KM for the speedo. Here's what that looked like.

You can see that the speedo has a large trip reset knob sticking out the bottom. These came in 2 styles and moved from one side of the gauge to the other at some point in 1953.

If your tach has silver-backed, and not stepped as seen in Spencer's photos, then it is probably a later VDO.
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James Davies
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Re: Speedo Question

#14 Post by James Davies »

As Spencer mentioned, your car had a 1500 motor. The motor P-31581 listed on the Kardex is a type 546, i.e. the 1500. So the tach would have markings just like Spencer's, not like Alan's.

For reference, the 546 engine had a separate tach from the 527 and 528 engines. 527 engines used in 1951 and 1952 were replaced with the 546 and 528 engines at the end of 1952.

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