The Official 356Talk Forum

Charlie White wrote:I wonder what the financial impact would be if the Lit Meet moved
out of California. No sales taxes from the activity at the meet, no
hotel/motel revenue and room taxes from all those attendees who
no longer attend, no restaurant and bar income for the hotels and
related businesses, no gasoline sales from all those who drive to the
lit meet, no airline fare income from those who fly in to LA for the meet,
and [...]
CW

Just sent this to someone else:
[T]he laugher here is that unless the fees and taxes are confiscatory, I probably pay more in (LA) hotel, gas, sales and restaurant taxes than they'd ever get from my sales. And that's one person (who is *paying* the new fees).
The fact is, I've never been able to define the actual financial benefit of being there, and it is not a trivial cost by the time I count all the expenses, so there is no compelling reason to attend.
If suffcient other vendors find that to be true, I hope the LA tax-man has foot bandaids; falling vendor numbers will yield falling attendance, meaning falling revenue.
[...]
We'll see, but I'm quite serious; Pre Mat won't be there if I have to pass on taxes and fees for a morning's sales to all the other customers.

I thought of one alternative way of doing business at the Lit Meet
selling books! I won't take any inventory, only a few sample books
for people to look at, and a pile of order forms that they can fill out
and send to me by mail or email utilizing personal checks and Paypal.
No selling on site, only demonstrating what is for sale, and showing
how purchases can be made. I never made any money selling books at the
Lit Meet. After driving over there from Arizona, paying for room and board,
entry fees, and meals, I lost money. What I got out of that was the fun
of attending and seeing old friends! Maybe I can do that, not sell books
there, depend on mail and email orders, and have just as much fun!
Maybe!! Giving that some serious thought!!

CWE

Charlie White wrote:I thought of one alternative way of doing business at the Lit Meet
selling books! [...]
CWE

If you read the CA sales tax permit form, you'll find they define that activity as 'doing business' and you are thereby liable for the filing fees and the filings even if you report $0.00 sales.
Charlie, these guys have spent hundreds of years writing the rules to get their pound of flesh; I understand some Caribbean islands are lovely that time of year.

Ron, are you saying that even if you don't sell anything at the
meet, you still have to have a permit, and file a report? If so,
IT'S TIME TO MOVE THE MEET TO SOMEWHERE MORE FRIENDLY!!!

CW

Charlie White wrote:Ron, are you saying that even if you don't sell anything at the
meet, you still have to have a permit, and file a report?
CW

Charlie, believe me that when the 'remote location sales tax filing' requirement notification came out last year, I wasn't alone in looking for work-arounds, including avoiding the actual transfer of money. Ha, and HA! You hope the tax guys hadn't thought of that? You lose.
Stoddard now owns the event. I'm sure they're concerned about the LA bizz license issue, since it's bound to impact the business. The CA state sales tax filing is old news and the resultant losses are sunk costs by now; not an issue AFAIK.
And (perhaps shame on me and whichever clerk sent that form) we still don't know whether the LA bizz license is actually a requirement, so I repeat: Pre Mat won't be there IF it is a requirement.
If the LA license fees become an issue, whether and how far the event can be moved and still work is a judgement call by Bruce & Co, not me or you.
Pretty sure it was originally scheded in LA to offer the East Coast and Mid-West (and Euro and Asian) guys an excuse to enjoy decent weather in February.
If LA screws the pooch, who knows? Bruce has a map and some idea of the air-fares.

I don't know about similar taxes, but Phoenix has the airport, the tourist
facilities, great hotels/motels, and great weather in February/March/April!

CW

Wonder what the damper effect this may have relative to the incentive re. the heretofore welcome of non US (German & other) vendor 356 Lit Meet participation??

How about Florida the weekend BEFORE the Sebring SVRA vintage races?

Vic Skirmants wrote:How about Florida the weekend BEFORE the Sebring SVRA vintage races?

Wow, wouldn't that be nice. Nice weather and hospitality in a business friendly low tax state.

do those LA councilmen have term limits

Phil Planck wrote:do those LA councilmen have term limits

LOL! Probably not.

Ron LaDow wrote:

Brad Ripley wrote:I don't see anything about a Los Angeles license being required. Somehow did the City of LA send you a notification?

You will soon see something about that:

LA biz076.jpg

Good grief, what's next ?

A couple of questions:

1. If Stoddard runs it, can the vendors operate under the Stoddard license?
2. What about the Anaheim swap meet? Must all the vendors there register with California or, perhaps, the City of Anaheim?

It would be a shame to miss out visiting all the suppliers/shops in the LA area the days of and prior to the Meet. Yet, I could probably get my wife to come along if it was held in Scottsdale.

Bob Forman wrote:A couple of questions:
1. If Stoddard runs it, can the vendors operate under the Stoddard license?

Have no idea and no desire or resources to investigate this. I'm a disinterested party in that question, so it's an odds-on bet that the clerk I got on the phone would direct me to paragraph X, page Y and....

Bob Forman wrote:2. What about the Anaheim swap meet? Must all the vendors there register with California or, perhaps, the City of Anaheim?

In the case of the Lit Meet, it seems the state smelled some money changing hands and, as governments do, figured there was some skim available. The state made the organizers the enforcer: If Jim Perrin et al didn't act as the state enforcer for tax collection, the state would make *them* liable for presumed tax losses: 'Nice little business you have going there. Shame if something happened...'. Government exists by coercion.
If one or the other government has not yet sniffed the money changing hands in Anaheim, it's a good guess that it is only a matter of time; moonbeam wants his choo-choo, and 'stuff' rolls downhill until some 'diligent' clerk smells a way to take that skim.

Bob Forman wrote:It would be a shame to miss out visiting all the suppliers/shops in the LA area the days of and prior to the Meet. Yet, I could probably get my wife to come along if it was held in Scottsdale.

I really enjoy the drive to the Lit Meet and the return with an o'night stay in Santa Maria with a great steak dinner. But I'm not willing to stick my customers with the LA fees to do business there one day a year. I can probably fly to Santa Maria for less than LA is gonna stick me.

O.K. I just did a bit of internet searching. Here's what I found on the Los Angeles Dept. Of Finance page. Briefly, a Tax Registration Certificate and a business license is required if you physically perform work for seven (7) days or more per year. The Lit Show and swap meet are only two days.

I would encourage Stoddard et al. to verify this with the City of Los Angeles and not with a company that the City contracts for to collect taxes. I think they may be a bit over-zealous.