123Ignition from 123Ignitionusa

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Ed Madak
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123Ignition from 123Ignitionusa

#1 Post by Ed Madak »

To end the confusion and with the help of some knowledgeable 356 forum members here is a list of the units available for the Porsche 356 and 912.
My personal choice would be the TUNE 4-R-V-V
Note: "V" Stands for model with vacuum option, Can be programmed out or simply not connected. Spacers included.

Enter Coupon Code (356Porsche5) for Forum discount

All Switch Models include Spacers http://123ignitionusa.com/porsche/

Order: 123\Porsche 4-R for 356 and 912 w/o vacuum

Order: 123\PORSCHE-4-R-V for 356 and 912 w/vacuum

TUNE Models http://123ignitionusa.com/porsche/

Tune 4-R-V-V Order Spacer too

Email any questions sales@123ignitionusa.com or CALL 440-668-8164 http://www.123ignitionusa.com/
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Last edited by Ed Madak on Fri May 20, 2016 10:15 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Hope this helps
Ed

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C J Murray
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Re: 123Ignition from 123Ignitionusa

#2 Post by C J Murray »

Hi Ed,
Generally, people here don't care about the 911, 914(VW Type 4 engine), or 912E(VW Type 4 engine). We are focussed on the 356 and the 912 until 1969 which used the 356 engine.

I would like to know which part numbers fit the 356 and more importantly why multiple part numbers are programed with the Bosch 022 curve?

What are the complete list of differences and what engines were these part numbers originally designed to fit?

Are all of these part numbers made with the rotor pointing in the same place?

What spacers are you supplying and how did you determine how thick they needed to be and what engines require them?

I am very happy with the 123 Tune that I bought from you for a highly modified street 356 but there seems to be no logical order to your basic 123 Distributor applications. I am very certain that most people here want to just order and get the correct distributor and spacer that will drop into their basically stock 356. Very few will convert to a vacuum type even though they should for the best results. If you wanted to be really slick then you would supply a thick aluminum billet clamp that would also function as a spacer.

So, what part number drops into the 356 without hassle?

Thank you,
Cliff Murray
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion

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Ed Madak
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Re: 123Ignition from 123Ignitionusa

#3 Post by Ed Madak »

Hi Cliff

Thanks for your help and input please see edited post above. :D
Last edited by Ed Madak on Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hope this helps
Ed

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C J Murray
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Re: 123Ignition from 123Ignitionusa

#4 Post by C J Murray »

Explain how one has 30* and the other has 35* yet they both claim to be "VJR4BR18 Porsche 356". Normally a distributor is measured in the number of degrees that it changes from idle to full advance. What do your numbers represent and what timing does the ENGINE see throughout the rpm range?
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
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Ed Madak
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Re: 123Ignition from 123Ignitionusa

#5 Post by Ed Madak »

Sure! They have pre programmed the max advance at those two points in the VW version. Just the same as you would program in two different curves in the TUNE. Unfortunately they do not supply me with all the intermediate points on the curve. So per our conversation it is noteworthy that the 356 and 912 should be max advance at 30 degrees. Therefore we are recommending the Porsche 4-R or if you care to depart from original or have Webbers you could use the Porsche 4-R-V.
At the end of the day if you have over advanced your ignition timing, grave problems could render your valuable Porsche motor useless. So a little less timing is always safer. :wink:
Hope this helps
Ed

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C J Murray
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Re: 123Ignition from 123Ignitionusa

#6 Post by C J Murray »

Thank you to Ed for being a concerned vendor. I very much enjoyed talking to you today. I know that you became the 123 Ignition distributor because you experienced their superior performance on your beloved MG cars. I know that you must rely on the factory for detailed technical information when supplying these parts for the many different makes and models that 123 covers. I had noticed conflicting information on the factory website and knew there was a problem at least with the 356 data. I asked them some questions in an email yesterday and got a response quickly. These emails are detailed below.

from me
Hello,
I am confused by your Porsche 356 applications. One is a “VW" type 1 unit that is available with or without vacuum. The other is a “Porsche" unit available only with vacuum that also contains a map for the 356. The most common 356 distributor was the 022, then the 18, and when production stopped Porsche substituted the alloy 031. They all were curved very much the same with 30* of advance range and they were timed 5* idle and 35* full advance. I do not know why some of your 356 curves are listed as 35* advance range while others are the correct 30* or why you show different starting rpm for the advance.

Also, with all those 16 curves it would be very nice to have alternative curves for the 356 that gave slightly less timing range but followed a similar trajectory. You offer many curves but they are not suitable for a 356. I am aware of the Tune, I have one, but many that have basically stock engines limit their stock distributors to 26-28* timing range.

Most 356 owners will not modify their car for vacuum, even though they should, so the VW unit without vacuum should be the one that should be designed for the 356. It should have the rotor pointing the correct way, unlike my Tune, and it should come with a clamp that makes up the gap that some are fixing with a spacer ring

I have suggested a lot but I think you would sell many more of your distributors to 356 owners if you made some adjustments. Your product is vastly superior to what else is available for our 6 volt cars so with some small effort you could sell many more.

Thank you.
Cliff Murray
123 answer
Hello Cliff,

I understand your confusion.
I will try to explain how it is.

In the first place we only had the VW-R or VW-R-V for WV and Porsche engines.
A lot of customers asked us for Porsche 914 curves, but the 16 curves in the VW distributor are full.
That's the reason we have introduced the PORSCHE-4-R-V and the PORSCHE-4-R (so also available without vacuum)
In this distributor you will find the correct Porsche 356, 912 and 914 curves.
For some reason people keep buying the VW-R for Porsche engines.....

It you like to play with different curves you have to take the tune.
It is simply not possible to put al the wishes of al customers al over the world in 16 curves.....

Indeed the 35 degrees of curve C in the VW-R are not correct. ( so in this case you have to choose curve D )
Curve D, 1600 rpm advance start is a misprint, this should be 800 rpm.
I agree this is very confusing.

In the new batch of instruction manuals the curve C will be corrected to 30 degrees and Curve D will be corrected to 800 rpm advance start.

Hopefully this helps!

Best regards,
Frank Bontebal
356 owners,
Ed is committed to selling you the right part and I think I helped him to understand the 356 pushrod engine vs. the 914/912E VW type 4 engine. We have exposed the factory misprints and confusion. Ed knows what part you need. The VW works fine but so does the Porsche so all you have to do is pick the correct curve. VW=D, Porsche=5 or 6(same). Both will come with a 7mm spacer but it is not absolutely needed. If you have Webers with vacuum ports then you should try the V-vacuum model. Just my opinion. Even better is the vacuum tapped into the manifold. If you don't want to be bothered and/or have Solex or Zenith carbs then get the distributor without vacuum. If your engine is highly modified then get the Tune model.

I hope this helps.
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion

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Matthew Devereux
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Re: 123Ignition from 123Ignitionusa

#7 Post by Matthew Devereux »

Ed's post sale service response has been great and the distributor works very well (TUNE model)
Matthew Devereux
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'58 356A coupe

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DonCichocki
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Re: 123Ignition from 123Ignitionusa

#8 Post by DonCichocki »

CJ,
Thanks for the effort on clearing up these discrepancies.
DC

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C J Murray
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Re: 123Ignition from 123Ignitionusa

#9 Post by C J Murray »

Don, no problem. It's a great product and we just needed to clear some smoke.
Cliff
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion

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