5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

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Geoff Ver
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5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#1 Post by Geoff Ver »

Hi all,
Finally mounted 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels rear and 4.5 inch Lemmertz wheels front on my bt5. Still not sure about the color (Wurtz Silver..) but after mounting the 5.5 inch I immediately noticed they are touching the shocks. Anybody experienced this before? Are wheel spacers the solution for this problem? An which ones are you using?
Thanks!

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Martin Benade
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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#2 Post by Martin Benade »

Are the rims touching or the tires? If it is the tire, what size are you using? Are the 5.5s definitely original or did somebody make them and maybe got the offset wrong?
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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#3 Post by Greg Bryan »

I ran 5.5 rims on my 65 C coupe and the edge of the inner wheel rubbed on the big cast iron shock mount - just a bit and especially when cornering. I put a thin spacer behind the wheel and problem was solved.
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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#4 Post by Geoff Ver »

The rims are touching. They look original and both rims (right and left) are touching the shock mount. Is a spacer a save solution for this? And where do you buy them?

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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#5 Post by Martin Benade »

I was not aware Lemmerz made a wheel of that width. You can get longer studs and spacers, I think maybe 19mm thick, if there is that much room left on the outside for tire clearance. It would be cheaper to get new wheels from Sierra Madre that fit. I have a set on my B and there is no clearance issue.
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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#6 Post by Geoff Ver »

Martin Benade wrote:I was not aware Lemmerz made a wheel of that width. You can get longer studs and spacers, I think maybe 19mm thick, if there is that much room left on the outside for tire clearance. It would be cheaper to get new wheels from Sierra Madre that fit. I have a set on my B and there is no clearance issue.
I've got a set of replica wheels, they fit correctly. But more time correct and original Lemmertz wheels is what I eventually want.
Are these spacers a solution? http://www.sierramadrecollection.com/35 ... 19057.html

And I really like these wheels:
http://www.sierramadrecollection.com/35 ... 22646.html

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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#7 Post by Edwin Ek »

Geoff,
I like your setup: 4.5" in the front and 5.5" in the rear. Are you running 185-70's in the back? I am doing the same thing on a T-6 car.

Porsche made 20-mm donut spacers for 356 cars. They were originally intended to use at the rear to maintain the track when using 20-mm wider brake drums (GT brakes) in the front.

You need longer studs to use spacers. Occasionally original 20-mm donuts show up on ebay. Several people are reproducing them; I can't remember who, sorry to say. The benefit of donuts compared to plates is lighter weight.

You may or may not have enough room at the rear to use standard-offset 5.5" rims and 20-mm spacers. If not, you have two choices: smaller spacers (thinner plates or donuts) or adjusting the offset of the wheels. Many shops can re-weld steel wheels to customize the offset.

One potential benefit of customizing offset is you have some influence over dish. Some people like the deep-dish look; others like the standard look (most or all of the extra inch is on the inside).
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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#8 Post by Geoff Ver »

Edwin Ek wrote:Geoff,
I like your setup: 4.5" in the front and 5.5" in the rear. Are you running 185-70's in the back? I am doing the same thing on a T-6 car.

Porsche made 20-mm donut spacers for 356 cars. They were originally intended to use at the rear to maintain the track when using 20-mm wider brake drums (GT brakes) in the front.

You need longer studs to use spacers. Occasionally original 20-mm donuts show up on ebay. Several people are reproducing them; I can't remember who, sorry to say. The benefit of donuts compared to plates is lighter weight.

You may or may not have enough room at the rear to use standard-offset 5.5" rims and 20-mm spacers. If not, you have two choices: smaller spacers (thinner plates or donuts) or adjusting the offset of the wheels. Many shops can re-weld steel wheels to customize the offset.

One potential benefit of customizing offset is you have some influence over dish. Some people like the deep-dish look; others like the standard look (most or all of the extra inch is on the inside).
Thanks. I think I'm going to try the 20mm spacers. Still strange the 5.5 inch wheels don't fit. Even my 356 specialist in The Netherlands has never seen this.
I will let you know if this is the solution (and enough room between the wheels and body).

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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#9 Post by M Penta »

I have 5.5's on my car and they did rub the shock mounts as you describe, causing the wheel weight to jam against it and ruin a brand new tire. I used a 5 x 130 5mm spacer from Ebay which solved the problem, stock lugs are just long enough for about 8 turns which most consider safe. Any wider then 5mm will require longer lugs. You will not need to go 20mm to fit the 5.5's.

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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#10 Post by Jim Breazeale »

Geoff Ver wrote:
Edwin Ek wrote:Geoff,
I like your setup: 4.5" in the front and 5.5" in the rear. Are you running 185-70's in the back? I am doing the same thing on a T-6 car.

Porsche made 20-mm donut spacers for 356 cars. They were originally intended to use at the rear to maintain the track when using 20-mm wider brake drums (GT brakes) in the front.

You need longer studs to use spacers. Occasionally original 20-mm donuts show up on ebay. Several people are reproducing them; I can't remember who, sorry to say. The benefit of donuts compared to plates is lighter weight.

You may or may not have enough room at the rear to use standard-offset 5.5" rims and 20-mm spacers. If not, you have two choices: smaller spacers (thinner plates or donuts) or adjusting the offset of the wheels. Many shops can re-weld steel wheels to customize the offset.

One potential benefit of customizing offset is you have some influence over dish. Some people like the deep-dish look; others like the standard look (most or all of the extra inch is on the inside).
Thanks. I think I'm going to try the 20mm spacers. Still strange the 5.5 inch wheels don't fit. Even my 356 specialist in The Netherlands has never seen this.
I will let you know if this is the solution (and enough room between the wheels and body).
There is no such thing as a "original" 5 1/2 X 15 Lemmerz or KPZ wheel for a drum brake car. You have a set of modified wheels.
"Factory" 20mm "doughnut" spacers were produced for Carrera GT cars that had 60mm wide front drums as you stated. The wheels (15 x 4 1/2aluminum/sheel) that accompanied them had an extra 20mm of back spacing to keep the track the same as a regular car. The 20mm doughnuts were added to the rear drums to keep the track the same as the front when using the aluminum/steel wheels. Adding a 20mm spacer to your wheels is just going to cause other problems.

Regards

Jim
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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#11 Post by Greg Bryan »

If you're running 5.5" 911/912 wheels, I doubt if you can use anything more that the 5mm spacer that Mr. Penta refers to above. That's just enough spacer to move the inner rim edge away from the shock mount but not so thick (hopefully) that you'll rub the tire on the outside. Run your fingers between the tire and the wheel arch to see if you have space. I bet you'll find that one side is different from the other too.
I have 912 5.5s on my C Cab and I am not using a spacer although the inner rim is close to the mount, and there is just clearance at the body work with Pirelli 195s.
This is all assuming that the wheels you are using have the same offset as the later small bolt pattern wheels.
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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#12 Post by Helge Tielker »

guys, just for my understanding: what kind of rims do you (have) install(ed) when driving 5,5 back and 4,5 in front .... do you use same tire size?

thanks
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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#13 Post by Edwin Ek »

Helge,

There were no 5.5" rims delivered on 356 cars. You have a drum-brake car, so you have to make them (weld on 5.5" outers). If you really want to pay attention to the details, find some regular 4.5" rims with matching date stamps as the donors for widening.

What opened my eyes to this setup is that when I bought my car, it had widened 5.5" rims at all 4 corners. Two of the rims had what seemed to be the original centers (right date stamps). It made sense to me to keep using them. So I bought unmodified 4.5" rims for the front.

For tires, 165-78 in front and 185-70 in the rear. Vredestein (Sprint Classic) and Pirelli (CN36) make tires in both sizes. I think Blockley does also, but they are not a mainstream tire manufacturer.
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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#14 Post by Helge Tielker »

Thanks Ek,
I have bought just a few weeks ago a set of 4,5 with the right date stamp 12/59 for restoring as our car due to the Kardex is 12/04/1959 (4th of december 1959).
With my car I have got 2 sets of 4: one I don't know the date stamps right now (need to check those) and the second set - right on my car - are 4 chrome KPZ 4.5 stamped all 2/61.
Actually I have as rims the Vredestein Sprint + 165/80 R15 86 H (max. 530 kg/ H = max. 210 km/h)

But to test I can just buy a set of 5.5 and put them on the back, and look for the Vredestein 185/70 R15 91H tire .
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Re: 5.5 inch Lemmertz wheels are touching my shocks

#15 Post by Helge Tielker »

Guys,
do you also use spacers to bring the front wheels more to the outside?

thanks
Helge
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