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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:18 am 
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Curt,

Great to hear someone is giving this a go.

Will you be using a swing axle?
Will you have to massage the torsion tube?
Or lengthen the trailing arms?
Does the hockey stick come out under the torsion tube?
How will the front mount attach?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:38 pm 
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Hi
Weedle is a supplier of racing transmissions and parts, They supply me with parts for the Cadrobbi Conversion. They have their own transmissions produced and sell Mendeola and Albins. There have been postings of installations of VW transmissions and maybe someone could post a link. As you can tell at about 6K a Rhino case box is doable with all the ratios you could desire. The Rhino Case is a great deal since it is a die vs a sand casting and is made in great quantities. What makes the 5spd possible in our space constraints is the stock VW reverse that does not affect the axial length. Parts could be made that would replace the middle housing and nose cone to make a better package. it could be done in limited quantities but it would take at least 20 sets.
If we are smart enough maybe the same parts could accommodate the Hewland or other race box pieces at least for a 4spd.
j

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:23 am 
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New thread - Outlaw 5-speed transmission

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:52 am 
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Location: Mesa Az.
Since Jacques already explained who weddle is I won't need to go there. I intend to do a full write up with lots of photos. It will probably be another month or two before it's finished and I can drive over to Orange and pick it up.

What GBE does is take orders for two years and than order a batch of castings. So the last batch, last month was available momentarily before selling out. I had an order in with Gary for over a year. I was told a few rumors that I would not repeat. There is no magic to it but if you had 100 on a waiting list you would think that they would have made more than 50 kits. The opportunity for volume seems to be there. If I were an investor I would start by talking to Gary.

There is a complete, brand new Berg 5 for sale on the Samba right now in the classifieds for $4,800.00.

I got the idea right here on the Registry from Tom Megan and Ralph D who successfully installed 4 speed VW transmissions in there 356's. I made the trip to Santa Fe for the West Coast Holiday and met Bill Sargent who installed the Ken Dougherty shifter in his faux cam Carrera. Bill kindly let me sit in his car and run it through the gears. Since Ken passed away I was able to contact his son and secure a kit in case nothing else works. I think the monkey motion might work because Greg Banfill was able to make it work with a VW 4 speed. The 5 speed is a couple of inches longer.

Curt...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:06 am 
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Gregory Campbell

Sorry Greg I missed your post. There will be no changes to the suspension at all. The Porsche axles and tubes bolt right to the VW Transmission. The shift rod will come over the torsion tube like a 356A. It would be nice if you could use the bus nose cone but you can't on the Berg 5. I'm going to use the stock duel hockey pucks by modifying a Berg center mount for VW's similar to what Tom Megan and Ralph D did.

Curt...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:43 am 
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Thanks Curt,

I think I understand. Given that the Berg 5 is approximately 2" longer, is that going to fit without interfering with the torsion tube?

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'18 904 w/ faux cam
'55 Speedster, Devin bodied Racer
'64 Elva Porsche
'64 Coupe, RHD Racer
'62 Single Cab, Volkshauler
'57 ghia, Porschized rally car
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:58 pm 
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At the very least, this topic is exposing a lot of possibilities and narrowing down our practical choices. But the thread shouldn't go dormant while we wait for Curt to complete and report on his Berg 5 project. Curt mentioned Bill Sargent, who has amazed many of us that have followed his quest for the "faux Carrera". I know Bill is off in China right now, but this is the kind of expertise and commitment we need here. Tom Megan, Ralph D, any thoughts?
Curt, do you have pictures of the Ken Dougherty shifter? I'm not familiar with this...
Thanks everybody.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:49 pm 
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Hi Curt,
Could you please expand some on the last sentence of your last post? Using the stock 356 ("hockey pucks" as you call them - good name) mounts is a must if this is to be an attractive project to most folks, along with using the stock shifter. How will you modify the Berg center mount to work?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:02 pm 
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Pictures of the Ken Dougherty shifter is on page 13 of Bill Sargent's 356 project post.
The Bergs designed a couple of different "mid plates" for various years of VW production. Standard mounting for VW trans was 2 rear mounts similar to Porsche and one front mount Like the very early T-5. For serious drag racers with very high horse power, when you drop the clutch at or near full throttle they would crack the nose cone. The mid mount moves that sudden shock from the nose cone to the main housing which is much stronger. Not that anybody in their right mind would treat their 356 in such a manor but it supplies us with a piece to weld arms to be able to use the hockey pucks. The easiest way to see what I'm talking about is to Google (Berg mid mount) and it will immediately become apparent what I'm describing.
I thought every time there was a post on this thread I would be notified by e-mail, not the case, so I'll check more often.

Curt...


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:58 pm 
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Curt,
As you suggested, I did my homework, or tried to anyway, but still have some questions (and comments). I'm familiar with Berg's mid-mount because the VW trans in my old sand buggy was mounted this way - very effective. Porsche didn't keep the early T-5 front mount very long, because "hockey puck" mid-mount much better. Berg's website doesn't have pictures, which is my problem envisioning what the 356 mount would look like and fit.
What you're calling the Ken Dougherty shifter is EXACTLY the way rear-engine dune buggies have been doing it for decades, works great, but is a completely outlaw look with the above-tunnel shift tube. I have a preA Speedster, heater control behind the shifter, don't want to butcher the tunnel, and don't like that look anyway. Can the Berg 5 couple with the wierdo A linkage? B?
Thanks for any help, Curt.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:50 pm 
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Craig,

What I know about the monkey motion shift linkage is that there a few A's here in town that use 741 transmissions by swapping the A nose cone on the 741 for the purpose of using the monkey motion. The Berg shift tower will come thru in "about" the same place as a stock A. Several guys on the Samba have modified stock and other type's of shifters to go into 5th gear, so to speak. I imagine with a little massaging a Porsche shifter could be made to do the same thing.
My T-1 A also has the heater control behind the shifter. In the spirit of the Outlaw forum, I could care less how my car came from the factory. I like them fast with short gears. When I cash out my son will have my A up for sale before I reach room temperature. He'll buy a couple more Saleen Mustangs :)

Curt...


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:19 pm 
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Curt,
Speedy also has a 741, and shifting works pretty good now, so I won't let this part of the deal bother me now. Looking forward to seeing your mid-mount when done. Thanks.
Craig

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:57 pm 
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When money is no object. This one is for a Spyder (718)

http://www.capricorngroup.net/fileadmin/files/images/718_Gearbox.pdf


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:04 pm 
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Hi Tom
I know 50K Euro is no problem for guys like CJ. But here are still problems. The 718 transmission shares many features with the 644. The gear centerline is identical. The main case is interchangeble so by just changing the side covers and the differential with either stock or Cadrobbi Conversion ones you could with stock axles preserve the swing axle geometry. The configuration of the gears is like the 901 1st and reverse in the nose. The reason that the 901 can shift is that the selectors are operated inside the main case. The 718 has the selectors operated outboard. the Gene berg 5 spd only has one gear in the nose area just like the 644/741 (reverse). Maybe we could use a cable shifter and fit a 718 based box in the car. Between the Big money guys like CJ and the racers like Vic and the Spyder owners having the same 716 stlyle gears on a 718 mainshaft there may be some demand.
j
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:40 pm 
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Jacques:

This is a pipe dream just like the complete Carrera engine in their portfolio. "Only" 120,000 Euros. :shock:

I just stumbled onto this thread as my car is getting closer to the finish line and I'm toying with the transmission ratios.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Best,

Tom

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