356c new outlaw build

For those who couldn't care less how their 356 left the factory!
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C J Murray
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#16 Post by C J Murray » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:38 pm

Does "the man" still work with him?
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car - Finally Finished!
'63 GS 2133 coupe
'64 Elva Courier mk4T
'67 911 S Original Owner

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MarkWade
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#17 Post by MarkWade » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:59 pm

When I call I will ask. Is their something about the Man that is interesting ?

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Charlie White
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#18 Post by Charlie White » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:40 pm

"The conversion was done without drilling a single hole or making a single cut in the original car. Everything is bolt-in."

John,

Would be interested to see a picture of your engine compartment. What did you do, if anything, with the engine tin?

CW
Charlie White

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C J Murray
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#19 Post by C J Murray » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:53 pm

MarkWade wrote:When I call I will ask. Is their something about the Man that is interesting ?
I hope you didn't call and ask if he still works with "the Man"! "Chico and the Man" was a TV comedy in the '70s with Jack Albertson and Freddie Prinze. He might not find that funny. Everybody is sensitive these days and only old guys like me even know of the show.
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car - Finally Finished!
'63 GS 2133 coupe
'64 Elva Courier mk4T
'67 911 S Original Owner

Mike Horton
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#20 Post by Mike Horton » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:31 pm

"Either way you go, do what makes YOU happy - good luck"

All good advice here, and Sterling, Farrell, and C.J. have hit the nail, so to speak, for most of us, while there are options... your car, your choice... but isn't this a great bunch, with varied experience. The more mature I get, the closer to stock I get, Hmmmm? (owner of a two piece crank, in my autocross days)

"Old Guys Rule"
Mike
Mike

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MarkWade
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#21 Post by MarkWade » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:04 pm

Well I missed the man comment. I guess I won't ask. By the way I'am 63 and the older I get the more I want to see how far I can push the envelope. Ha!

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John Roberts
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#22 Post by John Roberts » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:55 pm

Charlie asked for pictures of my engine compartment. Unfortunately, everything is all black so no details show in those pictures. i did include three shots of the new tin being fabricated. It was a cut and try job.

As some have correctly pointed out, conversions such as this one can have kinks which need to be worked out. The center mounted throttle bell-crank linkage is a case in point. After several years of constant diddling, I have decided to replace it with a "Sync-Link" cable and pulley system. I hear good reports on this type of throttle linkage. Easier to set-up and sync and more stable as well.
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Picture 1331.jpg
1963 356B T6 Coupe
Ser. # 211918
Mem. # 3192

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John Roberts
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#23 Post by John Roberts » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:05 pm

One more photo for Charlie, Like I said, it's really black in there!

Also a picture of a Sync-Link system (not my engine) for those who might be interested.
The rolling motion gives identical angular displacement of both carbs.
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Sync-Link 2.jpg
1963 356B T6 Coupe
Ser. # 211918
Mem. # 3192

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Charlie White
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#24 Post by Charlie White » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:49 pm

Very interesting, John, Thanks! I've heard about putting these 914 engines in a 356 and wondered how the installation was done. Had a 76 914 2.0 some years ago.

Thanks again,

Charlie White
Charlie White

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MarkWade
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#25 Post by MarkWade » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:54 am

John very nice! I will call Chico today, I wonder how pricing is now? I'am sure it's gone up!

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MarkWade
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#26 Post by MarkWade » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:30 am

Here are a few pictures of the start of my outlaw. I have made the decision to do only minor changes at first. 8)
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Charlie White
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#27 Post by Charlie White » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:19 am

Mark, here's another version of the Fuchs wheels. In this case they are 14" Fuchs which together with low profile 14" tires, they lower the car about 2-3 inches. Also lowers the final gear ratio, makes 1st a real stump puller, but 3rd and 4th are a real blast around town. Freeway driving isn't too hot, tops out too soon. The wheels were repainted and the outer 1" of the rim was polished.

CW
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Ron Delmendo
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#28 Post by Ron Delmendo » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:55 am

Hi Mark-

Welcome to the slippery slope of Outlaws... Perhaps the first question you should ask yourself is what you plan to do with the car or do you have a theme in mind? Spirited driving, auto-cross, GT or Carrera 2 clone, shark fin or covered in mirror mosaic glass; it's all been done in the past...

My 2-cents (fueled by a couple glasses of wine):
Engine: Cliff and Sterling offer good advice, on one end of the spectrum, you can go crazy and put a 270+HP 3.0 911 in there (see Chris Toy's build in a Excellance article a couple of years ago) or you can modify your current C engine to easily have 120HP. In between, a Raby or other Type IV engine will give you 170'ish HP. A Polo motor is a beautiful piece of engineering but I can think of better things to do with $30K. Personally, I think a 356 engine modified to 120 HP gives plenty of performance to have a ton of fun and it looks stock. Throw 1883 Nickies in, don't go too drastic on the Cam and beef up the carbs, either Solexes or Webers and you'll have a reliable engine that will pull strong from 2500-6500 rpm.

Suspension: You can lower the car a fair amount both front and back fairly easily. There are threads that you can search about this. Personally, I like the lowered but not slammed look (i.e dropped spindles and chopped transmission hoops). You may also want to consider the Wilhoit front sway bar and Skirmants rear camber compensator.

Wheels & Unsprung Weight: From a performance standpoint, perhaps the most bang for your buck would be to change out your wheels. Fortunately, with a C you have lots of options with Fuchs or other alloy wheels. Personally, I love the look of Fuchs and would put them on my car if I had disc brakes. 14" Fuchs with low profile rubber and lowered suspension looks way cool.

Chassis weight: As Cliff said, the cheapest way to improve performance and to get the outlaw look is to strip off the 356 "Bling". Removing bumper guards, hood handle, rocker trim, back seats and switching out stock seats for Al Speedster or other aftermarket seats will shave off many pounds and drastically improve power to weight ratio. There was a very old thread on this (back in the email version of 356 Talk) where someone weighed all the parts he removed or swapped out for lighter weight versions. I seem to remember he dropped like 150# off the car. Personally, I like the factory GT look without going to the Al body panel expense...

Personality: One of the coolest things about Outlaws is that you shed the need to stay "Correct". Louvrered deck lid, powder coated wheels, racing stripes, etc. I really like Rusty Wiley's clear coated bare metal coupe. It's your car, do what give you the biggest grin...

Whatever you decide, drive it like you stole it.
Cheers,

Ron

'61 Roadster Outlaw
'69 911E ROW Coupe
'68 911 SWT project
‘18 Macan

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MarkWade
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Re: 356c new outlaw build

#29 Post by MarkWade » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:29 am

Thanks Ron!

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Rick Hartbrodt
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Re: 356c new outlaw build Al Speedster Seats??

#30 Post by Rick Hartbrodt » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:26 pm

Can someone tell me what
"Al Speedster Seats" are.
I also am doing an outlaw and am going the Porsche eng/make it light route.
Thank you
Rick

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