Outlaw 4-cam motor

For those who couldn't care less how their 356 left the factory!
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Sterling Vaden
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Outlaw 4-cam motor

#1 Post by Sterling Vaden »

I saw this today and couldn't resist:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200701488152?ss ... 1423.l2649

Surely this could be swapped into a 356, 912, or Subaru... ;)
(edited) I purchased a new unnumbered 2 liter block, heads, crank along with other parts. I decided to build an all new engine utilizing modern technology including a cross bolted block like those found in the 904.

One of the main goals was to lighten the internals of the new motor. With that in mind, I installed titanium parts from the best manufactures in Europe wherever possible along with Pankl rods and valves with beryllium seats, custom Mahle pistons with short light weight skirts and smaller pins, knife-edged crank and of course new gears and heavy duty oil pump.

New intake manifolds were created to work with 48 DOCE Weber carburetors, and the heads were polished/ported and flowed for maximum air/fuel efficiency. We had a cam specialist design specific cams of the same original material with new followers, drag levers and machined a part that would allow perfect timing of the valve train. Per the best advice of four cam specialist, all cam weights were removed as had been done on most four cam engines over the years.

Since the engine was not finished after five years, I removed the parts from the original engineer and sent them to Paul Willison to be assembled and checked. I asked him to run the motor on the dyno but not to develop the performance. When new engines are installed on a dyno they require major adjustments in jetting, timing and exhaust to tune for maximum performance and this motor made 169 HP and 150 Ft. Lbs. of torque with no performance tuning at all!
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SV
356*D = 912
http://picasaweb.google.com/456311

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Jacques Lefriant
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Re: Outlaw 4-cam motor

#2 Post by Jacques Lefriant »

Hi Sterling
If you read between the lines all the update parts that are available now will not make a well developed engine much better. The real reason that engine is not better than the originals is that the "engineer" who developed it had very little 4-Cam experience. Porsche spent some time on them and Tuners like Heinz Bade, Al Cadrobbi and Dewey Jones got better results with factory parts and they did not create a one off that would have to be reengineered when the time came to service it.
FCF
jacques
Last edited by Jacques Lefriant on Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Sterling Vaden
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Re: Outlaw 4-cam motor

#3 Post by Sterling Vaden »

I am not disagreeing. If you look at the dyno results, they are not very encouraging. When he said the heads were "polished, ported, and flowed" I was seriously wondering what one would do to improve them... And why would you have new cams ground, only to yield such lackluster performance?

BTW, I have a friend that is getting over 600 BHP from a massaged Subaru WRX Sti. Yee Haw!
SV
356*D = 912
http://picasaweb.google.com/456311

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C J Murray
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Re: Outlaw 4-cam motor

#4 Post by C J Murray »

$235k, 2 liter, 169 hp, in race trim? What a joke. Good thing it looks good.

Jacques, Is 180hp all that a factory 2 liter 4 cam race engine produced? That ain't much.
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Jacques Lefriant
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Re: Outlaw 4-cam motor

#5 Post by Jacques Lefriant »

CJ
But the 904 with that engine was one of the most succesful endurance/rally/ contenders. that motor even beat the Chaparalls in a Lotus for the USAC champonship. So There. The other consideration is that it belongs in cars that fetch 3-10 times the price of that engine. so it does not belong in your average daily driver. Seriously a good 904 engine with std compression will make 175-185 that engine probably has another 5-10 hp in it when they get the carburetion right but the computer program they used to design the parts was designed for different motors and they went the wrong way with the porting and cam timing.
jacques
 

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Re: Outlaw 4-cam motor

#6 Post by C J Murray »

Jacques,
In the late '50s Speedsters with 80hp were winning races but the past 60 years of development and modern methods have reaped big rewards. The 1622cc vintage race pushrod engines produce 165hp.(they can make more but let's just say 165) I would think that an average 2 liter 4 cam should be close to 200hp. I wonder why the last 50 years hasn't resulted in more power being found. What did the other 2 liter pure race engines of the day produce? I guess I need to do a little research. And a street legal 2.0 911 with a warranty made 160hp in 1967...and it only had a lowly SOHC engine...with chain drive. I bet a vintage race 2.0 911 makes more than 200hp.
'57 Speedster
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Re: Outlaw 4-cam motor

#7 Post by Jacques Lefriant »

CJ
Who cares. The laws of thermodynamics can not be repealed. seriously the Factory developed them to be state of the engineering knowhow at the time there isn't much room for improvement. i hear the 2.0 911 are up to 230-240. the best normaly asperated air cooled Porsche engine was the 753/771(280hp from 2.2ltr 4-Cam 8 cylinder) in their day. but no Porsche motor of the 50s/60s had the racing sucess of the 4-Cam. even with your kind of hp the Alfas, Morgans,and Lotus kick your ass now. Oh i forgot the Saabs
jacques
 

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Re: Outlaw 4-cam motor

#8 Post by C J Murray »

Jacques Lefriant wrote:CJ
Who cares. The laws of thermodynamics can not be repealed. seriously the Factory developed them to be state of the engineering knowhow at the time there isn't much room for improvement. i hear the 2.0 911 are up to 230-240. the best normaly asperated air cooled Porsche engine was the 753/771(280hp from 2.2ltr 4-Cam 8 cylinder) in their day. but no Porsche motor of the 50s/60s had the racing sucess of the 4-Cam. even with your kind of hp the Alfas, Morgans,and Lotus kick your ass now. Oh i forgot the Saabs
jacques
Hey, Saabs don't kick my ass! And...who said that I make big power? I just do the best that I can with a file and a big hammer. Country bumpkin style.
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion

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Jacques Lefriant
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Re: Outlaw 4-cam motor

#9 Post by Jacques Lefriant »

CJ
when i was at the factory customer service area in 1973 i saw a mechanic working on a 4-Cam with a file he was trying to fit the intake manifold gasket. so you are in good company. now where did i put my 3kg hammer i have to adjust my bevel gears(the hammer is to instal them)?
jacques
 

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Frederic Prince
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Re: Outlaw 4-cam motor

#10 Post by Frederic Prince »

Like the engine, but a bit too expensive for me :o:o:o

fred ;)©
1991 - 1993 - 2,7 Targa
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2018...3,2 Speedster '89

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