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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:40 pm 
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Emil Wojcik wrote:
What ever happened to the guy that was posting about a mid engine 356 he was working on a couple years ago? Was it too big of a project, stalling before completion, or did I miss the final stages? (My guess is the former but I'm hoping it's the latter.)

Emil - Check this thread: http://www.kustomcoachwerks.com/forums/ ... &start=195

Here's another option :shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:15 am 
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Good to see this thread come alive again. It reaffirms that the "hot rodder" spirit is still alive today.
It's not that the original engines were bad, it's just that the design dated from the 1930's or earlier. Put into context of the period of time the 356 was manufactured they were still very appropriate.
The 356 was conceived as a "high speed" grand touring car and in petrol rationed Europe needed to get good gas mileage too. Dr. Porsche achieved the goal through light weight and aerodynamics. Of course "high speed" at the time was 80 to 100 mph, even on the Autobahns (think early VW's, DKW's). And the US the average domestic car was hard pressed to run more than 80 mph for even a few hours without engine failure. Here's where the hot rodder and Nascar enter so blame them for faster and safer cars (up to a point, of course).

Jacques; to paraphrase an earlier comment "why don't you just buy a McLaren, the cost would be the same" :)

Anyway, I hope this thread starts some discussion and gets some thought about "what If".
Ray
Personally, I think the a "65 SC Coupe still meets most of todays driving requirements, except here in Florida it would really be sooo nice to have air conditioning!
(Oh yeah my '82 911 SC does have AC but it feels like a hamster blowing through a straw)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:18 am 
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I have driven a very well done 356 with 911 engine and rear suspension. Not much fun in my opinion due to excessive rear weight bias. Any water cooled engine is just plain wrong. Buy a Renault Caravelle if you want a rear engine water cooled(Subaru engine?) car to make into an abomination. Unless you want to ruin the overall character of the 356 then you need a lightweight 4 cylinder air cooled engine and that leaves only the goofy 4cyl 911, various VW hot rods, and the stroked 356 engine. The VW engines are better and cheaper than the other two but I am very happy with the 356 stroker. It looks like it belongs. If I had a Karmann Ghia(I had one many years ago and loved it) and was building an outlaw I would use a VW engine. I don't think I could even put a Chevy into a Ford hot rod. No Chevy in a Cobra replica either. Maybe my potty training messed me up?

Oh, Jacques' idea is good but well out of my financial reach.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:39 am 
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Hi CJ
If i get some help my outlaw 4-Cam should be comparable to the goofy engine which should be a financial option for you.
j

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:55 am 
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What will Capricorn do with all their $125k 4-cams?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:58 am 
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Trevor, there's something "off" about that car...I don't think the headlight is correct. :P

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:06 pm 
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CJ
that is 125K euro for that kind of money real ones can be had sometime. If the volume were there a 4-Cam engine could be done like the Polo. there are more parts to do and assembly will be more time consuming but the price should be less than 2X the Polo.
j

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:57 pm 
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CJ, I agree weight is typically a problem with the water cooled engines but that Ford ecoboost is only 215 lbs or about the same as a 356 engine with all of the shrouding, generator etc. The radiator/s could be put up front to further enhance weight distribution. That said I do think it would be a real challenge to mate the triple to the 356 transaxle (engine rotation, clutch, electronics etc) and the biggest advantage might only be pollution control and longevity as I'm quite sure the original engines can be tweaked up to 120 hp or more, they just might not last too long.
Got to have air cooled? How about the current model BMW 1200cc GS engine; 125 hp plus has to be lighter than the original engine and has a cat converter to boot (the Millennials would love it). And you can buy a new BMW GS motorcycle for less than a Polo engine. Well it is an air/liguid cooled engine though, sorry.
Oh Jacques, you millionaires slay me "less than 2X the Polo". Ouch, I can't afford a Polo :(
Ray

CJ, It wasn't potty training, you just grew up in the North. Us Southern Boy's were putting Cadillac engines in Fords before you were born. I do agree though, seeing a Chevy crate motor in a Cobra (even a replica) or a "32 High Boy Roadster "Jest ain't rat" :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:58 pm 
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Hi Ray
356 outlaws are not usually rat rods they have levels of builds commensurate to concourse prepared cars. although most available engines will provide superior performance or utility few engines will increase the perceived value of the vehicle.
j

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:08 pm 
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Jacques
No argument from me, the 4 cam motors are beautiful to see and even better to hear. No doubt putting one in a run of the mill 356 will increase it's perceived value and give the owner bragging rights over the ner do wells, but will the perceived value really exceed the combined costs to get there unless the COA says the car was really a 4 cam on delivery? I think the most likely market for 4 cam replica engines are the vintage race guys that could mothball the original engine and use the replica for racing. Huge fun and you have to have huge bucks to do it so cost is no object i.e. Capricorn engines.

Does anyone build 356 Rat Rods today? With the perceived values of 356's now I'm even worried that the windshield washer hose I replaced in the 70's is the wrong size and length. I did get it from NAPA so they must have know how, don't they?

Anyway, I suppose I'm a bit jaded and have had my 356 too long to idolize it so my idea of a desirable optional engine would have the following; fuel injection, pollution control, light weight, around 120 hp, good torque (at least equal the 1600 engine), no oil leaks, parts readily available, parts reasonably priced, modern electronic ignition (I hate setting points), at least 100,000 miles before needing a rebuild and last but not least able to support air conditioning (you California Guys have no idea what 95 deg 80% humidity feels like in stop and go traffic). The rest of the car would be more or less original, maybe tweak the suspension and make sure the brakes were up to spec, but more or less stock appearing. Oh yeah and 2nd gear synchros that don't go south in 30k miles and LED lights and HID headlights to see and be seen. So is that still an Outlaw ?
Configured like this a 356 could still give the same driving experience but without the little annoyances we tend to excuse and endure just to have one of these wonderful creations.

Ray


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:50 pm 
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ray nelson wrote:
... Configured like this a 356 could still give the same driving experience but without the little annoyances we tend to excuse and endure just to have one of these wonderful creations.

Ray


I would say it would give a unique driving experience. But nothing like the same driving experience.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:12 pm 
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Here is a 356 that you can drive around town at 2000rpm in 4th.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:11 pm 
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Hi Ray and CJ
how about 200 hp 175ft-lbs fuel injection 2.2-2.4 ltr dry sump twin plug 4-Cam gear drive bolt in. at least 50% of the parts interchangeable with 4-Cams and the rest inspired by the original. From what i understand the Capricorn engine still relies on finding some of the original bits and is not user friendly so the old timers don't want to mess with it and prefer spending more on original pieces.
j

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:52 am 
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A really interesting thread and please excuse my naivety as I am new to 356's (been into aircooled VW's for years).

So I just bought a really nice 1960 356B t5 which I plan to drive as stock for the next two years living in Philly. I am planned to go back to the UK in December 2016 and the car will come with me when I want to do some mild outlaw conversion to her. I already have a bunch of CB Performance parts (case, rods, timing gear etc etc) and I plan to use Porsche style cooling and Jenvey throttle bodies with Omex ECU for injection management and crank trigger timing. This will be in addition to a mild turbo. Should make in the region of 240 BHP in streetable mode.

The 356 engine will be stored for future reversal of the outlaw mods if needed.

My plans are to use Airkewld brakes and uprated sway bars etc but my biggest concern is the transmission. I do not want to hack the chassis about to fit IRS as I want it to be reversible but are there any options for swing axle 5 speed? that would not require non reversible cuts to the chassis?

I am just learning!!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:32 am 
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Hi David
sounds like you are going to do some mods you should look at the irs topic
j

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