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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:06 am 
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Glad we coaxed you out of the shadows Richard, because your posts are rich with good practical experience. Of course Matt's approach is still my own preference, and the most cost-effective path to more power, especially if you start with a whole car. Since most outlaws are not daily drivers, my next question may not be of much concern to all, but what do you guys do for heaters? Even here in SoCal we occasionally get winter (like today), and I'm too big a wussie to have no heater!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:43 am
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I have never put the top up on my speedster after I got it, or my convertible D in the years I had it, so you are asking the wrong guy about heaters. I am restoring the webasto heater in my 911 though...against common wisdom.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:43 am 
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Has anybody here weighed their car before and after the conversion to a Polo and 900 trans and suspension? How much weight does that add? How about just the trans and suspension? How about a 911 engine? Polo engine and plumbing by itself? Somebody must know.

Richard, do you have dyno reports to compare to the other fuel injected Polo?

It seems to me that more data results in better decisions for the Outlaw builders.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:18 am 
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Cliff, I don't have the other dyno reports. I never really considered going EFI as I did want to stay as traditional as possible.

I would ask rod Emory. Same with weight. When I did ask the basic weight change was in the transmission which we wanted for the strength. Also I am running an early 911 rear suspension, and recast annular disk brakes so stock wheels bolt to it. Those brakes were remade from the period but rare Porsche racing brakes.

I modified an earlier post to give more credit to other alternatives like yours; I was a bit hasty in promoting polo over all else.. Sorry! And I explained the actual reasons why I went this way.

I just thought it was a wonderful and unique choice that Rod really liked as well.

I also started this project maybe 7 years ago when there were only a few out there (not that there are that many today).


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:56 am 
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I never put the top up on Speedy either, unless caught up in a real rain storm, but I do have a full tonneau cover that covers the passenger area. When I'm coming home on a chilly evening, it's amazing how toasty it gets when that wimpy heater is on full.

Cliff keeps beating on this weight drum because it's really important. The easiest way to make your Speedster handle a little better is throw a sack of cement in the spare tire well! These 356's are very sensitive to weight balance, and hanging any more weight out the back is a bad thing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:09 pm 
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I understand re the weight.

But remember I have an early 911 rear suspension and 2 cylinders less weight than an early 911.

I can assure you it is very well balanced. It is more confidence inspiring than my stock speedster.

But if you didn't have the upgraded suspension - all bolt in btw - on the margin it matters.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:22 pm
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Guys remember this is the Outlaw Corner, remember they all can't be "Show Queens". I look at the suspension and 5 speed conversions like a natural evolution of the car. As if Porsche had keep the 356 body and made the improvements themselves. Kind of a 1965 1/2. I helped a fellow member build a car with the 5 speed conversion and used a type IV engine. 2.7ltrs. Crank fire ignition, sequential fuel injection, dry sump, with 911 cooling. weighs about 15lbs more than the 356 engine. No the car doesn't drive like an original 356. It's very quick and stable at freeway speeds. We upgraded the brakes to match the added power with Wilwood 4 piston calipers at all 4 corners. The car is an absolute kick to drive.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:39 pm 
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Wow! That's beautiful. What color is he going to paint her? Or him...since that's a pretty muscular stance you've got going there.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:44 pm 
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I like it in primer as is!

My personal aesthetics take me away from modern 911 wheels like twists or Fuchs amd to the period look, but that's just me. (Part of the reason I went with Porsche annular disc brakes to match the early lug pattern)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:57 pm 
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He's going to paint the car black w/ light gray interior. By the way the car has power windows and A/C. My personal preference would be a set of Coddington alloy wheels that look like the original "C" wheels without caps, just wider like the twist wheels. To each his own that's what makes the Outlaws appeal to me.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:12 pm 
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First, I truly don't care what others do and I do appreciate the art and craftsmanship shown in many of the outlaws. It is similar to building a race car or race bike which I love to do because of the freedom to create and engineer. Technically, the car that I drove 7000 miles cross country is an outlaw but I don't like the term so I just consider it to be in club racing trim, just like the cars that owners drove on the street and raced on weekends back in the day. I will say that the street rod billet bling crap looks very bad on a 356. That stuff doesn't look very good on street rods either when compared to classic hot rods. The bling reminds me of Hot Wheels plastic cars. I am more impressed with cars that are modified in ways that appear to have been done in the day. The modifications should be aimed at reducing weight and improving handling just as Porsche would have done. Horsepower is good but not at the expense of handling. As for engines, if I had a Ford hot rod it would have a Ford engine, not a Chevy. Nobody should really care about what others think about all this BUT you should know if there is a penalty, such as weight, before you make the modification. Do you want to make your car different or better? I have driven a 911 powered 356 that was built by an expert and it was nowhere near as good as a 356 or an early 911. I imagine the 900 suspension and gearbox with a 4 cylinder is better. I think I will have to beg a drive in the one that a friend just built if the snow ever melts.

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'57 Speedster - very real
'59 Sunroof - mostly real
'60 Devin D Race Car-in process - fake chassis - real body
'63 GS 2133 coupe - very real
'67 S Original Owner - ultra real


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Hi Cliff
this is the project of the day


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:13 pm 
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:wink: Is that the third version of the 4 cylinder 911?

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'57 Speedster - very real
'59 Sunroof - mostly real
'60 Devin D Race Car-in process - fake chassis - real body
'63 GS 2133 coupe - very real
'67 S Original Owner - ultra real


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:23 pm 
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Hi Cliff
guess again and it's not a Subaru only 3 mains
j

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:27 pm 
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Is it really complicated, breaks a lot, and makes modest power? Is it a 4-cam?

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'57 Speedster - very real
'59 Sunroof - mostly real
'60 Devin D Race Car-in process - fake chassis - real body
'63 GS 2133 coupe - very real
'67 S Original Owner - ultra real


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