Outlaw Engine Choices
- Jacques Lefriant
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 4602
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:50 pm
- Location: Washoe county NV
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
Hi Christian
A little history may be in order here. The 356 engine is based on the VW 34/6 1200cc engine. yes you can make it almost a 2.0 liter but you are dealing with an engine that is already a hot rod. just because Porsche never had the oportunity of developing an economic alternative that would replace it i would not limit myself to it. your early 911 can have its engine doubled in displacement and still be within its original design.
KTF
jacques
A little history may be in order here. The 356 engine is based on the VW 34/6 1200cc engine. yes you can make it almost a 2.0 liter but you are dealing with an engine that is already a hot rod. just because Porsche never had the oportunity of developing an economic alternative that would replace it i would not limit myself to it. your early 911 can have its engine doubled in displacement and still be within its original design.
KTF
jacques
- C J Murray
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 9162
- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:24 pm
- Location: 30MI WEST OF PHILA
- Contact:
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
Hi Jacques,
Why not a Chevy Big Block or a Viper V10?
The 356 attracted it's loyal followers by being the most balanced and efficient performance car produced in the era. LESS IS MORE! To put a heavy lump hanging behind the rear axle ruins the whole experience. Yes, I have driven a 356 with a complete 911 driveline and rear suspension. What a shame it is to destroy the 356 persona. Buy a 911!
The VW Type IV engine makes more sense but, why? That is like putting a Ford engine in a Chevy. If you want to build a hot VW engine, buy a VW to put it into. Can you say, Karmann Ghia? I had one years ago and they are pretty cool.
The 356 engine can be modified to make a reliable 150hp in street tune. Street tune, meaning that the car would be pleasant to drive all day in city traffic. If you need more, buy a 911, or a Corvette, or a Viper.
Cliff
Why not a Chevy Big Block or a Viper V10?
The 356 attracted it's loyal followers by being the most balanced and efficient performance car produced in the era. LESS IS MORE! To put a heavy lump hanging behind the rear axle ruins the whole experience. Yes, I have driven a 356 with a complete 911 driveline and rear suspension. What a shame it is to destroy the 356 persona. Buy a 911!
The VW Type IV engine makes more sense but, why? That is like putting a Ford engine in a Chevy. If you want to build a hot VW engine, buy a VW to put it into. Can you say, Karmann Ghia? I had one years ago and they are pretty cool.
The 356 engine can be modified to make a reliable 150hp in street tune. Street tune, meaning that the car would be pleasant to drive all day in city traffic. If you need more, buy a 911, or a Corvette, or a Viper.
Cliff
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion
- Jacques Lefriant
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 4602
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:50 pm
- Location: Washoe county NV
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
Cliff
If you want to keep the persona keep the engine stock. I enjoyed my normal engine in my T5 coupe and i only was fustrated when a VW squareback keep up with me and i had to back off because my oil temp was climbing. When i had the C2 cab i drove it around and compared it to a 911. i did not like the fact that i could drive it like an automatic because it had gobs of torque. the sounds were great but i sensed the gearbox was crying for attention.
KTF FCF
jacques
If you want to keep the persona keep the engine stock. I enjoyed my normal engine in my T5 coupe and i only was fustrated when a VW squareback keep up with me and i had to back off because my oil temp was climbing. When i had the C2 cab i drove it around and compared it to a 911. i did not like the fact that i could drive it like an automatic because it had gobs of torque. the sounds were great but i sensed the gearbox was crying for attention.
KTF FCF
jacques
- Jacques Lefriant
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 4602
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:50 pm
- Location: Washoe county NV
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
Hi Guys
if you want an aircooled flat engine why don't we resurect a Corvair. my personal choice would be a injected 771 engine with the 822 box.
jacques
if you want an aircooled flat engine why don't we resurect a Corvair. my personal choice would be a injected 771 engine with the 822 box.
jacques
- Jon E. Askins
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:14 pm
- Tag: Outlaw Porsches, When OEM just won't do.
- Location: Orlando, FL
- Contact:
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
I like the affordability and ease of getting parts for the VW engine. You can stroke 'em out and do all kinds of mods and still get power and dependability.
We were staring with, all NEW:
VW 1600cc case, Boattailed and deburred
Forged Chromoly Crank
92mm Pistons
82mm Stroke
Chromoly connecting rods
110 Engle CAM
Lightened Chromoly Flywheel
Weighted counter balanced pulley
Hi-flow oil pump
Outlaw 044 Heads and engine worked over by A+ Machinist in Titusville
Swirle honing, valve guides shaved, heads custom trimmed around valves to breath better, re-CC'd, decked, polished and ported
I am not sure what all that means, but it is supposed to be good,
.009 Distributor
9.5 to 1 Compression
4.25 End Play
Blue Bosch Coil
Remote Oil Filter
Dual Webber 44 IDFs
Custom Exhaust!!
MagnaFlow
Features and Benefits: MagnaFlow XL 3 Chamber Mufflers use a unique combination of large diameter perforated tubing and strategically placed sound baffles to reduce unwanted resonance and help your engine create horsepower.
The sound baffles tune the sound waves using calibrated tuning gate openings that allow portions of the waves to pass through. These tuned waves reflect off the back wall of the muffler and cancel out unwanted harsher sounds.
The large diameter perforated core eliminates the flow restrictions of a louvered style core. A careful balance between perforation size/spacing and the baffle tuning gate make for a great 3 chamber performance muffler.
Couple thousand miles on her with a few valve adjustments and she runs strong!
We were staring with, all NEW:
VW 1600cc case, Boattailed and deburred
Forged Chromoly Crank
92mm Pistons
82mm Stroke
Chromoly connecting rods
110 Engle CAM
Lightened Chromoly Flywheel
Weighted counter balanced pulley
Hi-flow oil pump
Outlaw 044 Heads and engine worked over by A+ Machinist in Titusville
Swirle honing, valve guides shaved, heads custom trimmed around valves to breath better, re-CC'd, decked, polished and ported
I am not sure what all that means, but it is supposed to be good,
.009 Distributor
9.5 to 1 Compression
4.25 End Play
Blue Bosch Coil
Remote Oil Filter
Dual Webber 44 IDFs
Custom Exhaust!!
MagnaFlow
Features and Benefits: MagnaFlow XL 3 Chamber Mufflers use a unique combination of large diameter perforated tubing and strategically placed sound baffles to reduce unwanted resonance and help your engine create horsepower.
The sound baffles tune the sound waves using calibrated tuning gate openings that allow portions of the waves to pass through. These tuned waves reflect off the back wall of the muffler and cancel out unwanted harsher sounds.
The large diameter perforated core eliminates the flow restrictions of a louvered style core. A careful balance between perforation size/spacing and the baffle tuning gate make for a great 3 chamber performance muffler.
Couple thousand miles on her with a few valve adjustments and she runs strong!
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:49 pm
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
Here is a type 4 2056 914 engine with a cali upright cooling in my 356
- Greg Banfill
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:32 am
- Tag: I build my cars for me to enjoy, not you
- Location: Nor Cal
- Contact:
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
I run a 2276cc engine with IDA's in my '54
I have 175hp at the wheels.
911 style Bergman cooling
Pro-street VW trans.
Daily driver ability with as much power as I want if I need it.
Real world numbers, I'm into the running gear for roughly $15k
I have 175hp at the wheels.
911 style Bergman cooling
Pro-street VW trans.
Daily driver ability with as much power as I want if I need it.
Real world numbers, I'm into the running gear for roughly $15k
Registry Member #30711
54 Outlaw
VW / Porsche - Vintage Warehouse
Parting 55 Coupe
54 Outlaw
VW / Porsche - Vintage Warehouse
Parting 55 Coupe
- Jon E. Askins
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:14 pm
- Tag: Outlaw Porsches, When OEM just won't do.
- Location: Orlando, FL
- Contact:
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
Nice clean intimidating look .
- Greg Banfill
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:32 am
- Tag: I build my cars for me to enjoy, not you
- Location: Nor Cal
- Contact:
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
Thanks. I like the "simple" look
Registry Member #30711
54 Outlaw
VW / Porsche - Vintage Warehouse
Parting 55 Coupe
54 Outlaw
VW / Porsche - Vintage Warehouse
Parting 55 Coupe
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 773
- Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:43 am
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
I have driven a 356 with a polo motor extensively. It's incredible and would be my first choice, money no object.
Rod Emory would be the right person to discuss these with as he has built 12 of them.
Rod Emory would be the right person to discuss these with as he has built 12 of them.
- Matthew Devereux
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1047
- Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:36 am
- Location: Alberta
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
I decided to just hot rod a 912 engine with 1720 p&cs, Elgin cam and Dellortos. Assembly starts next week. According to John Wilhoits's testing this combo (w/Webers) should be good for 100hp. With a full rebuild it wasn't cheap however the next step up is a big one unless you go VW.
Matthew Devereux
'00 Boxster S
'58 356A coupe
'00 Boxster S
'58 356A coupe
- Jacques Lefriant
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 4602
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:50 pm
- Location: Washoe county NV
- Matthew Devereux
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1047
- Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:36 am
- Location: Alberta
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
There is also the Wilhoit 1925TR engine.
Matthew Devereux
'00 Boxster S
'58 356A coupe
'00 Boxster S
'58 356A coupe
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 773
- Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:43 am
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
Horsepower can be deceiving; I would go for torque.
Rod Emory has improved the polo engines. They can make crazy power now of desired.
Rod Emory has improved the polo engines. They can make crazy power now of desired.
- Craig Richter
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1305
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:01 pm
- Location: San Miguel de Allende/Traunkirchen
Re: Outlaw Engine Choices
Living within the limitations of its' classic design, while still refining what features we can to enhance utility and driving pleasure, this is to me the 356 experience. Going to different motors, more sophisticated suspensions, multi-gear transmissions, maybe all "refinements" on a broad technical scale, change the experience into something else. It may still be a significant and rewarding experience, but it's not the same 356 experience I enjoy.