Lowering a 356

[Jim Breazeale]

stock 5.5 C chrome wheels

Charlie, were 5.5" wheels ever "stock on a 356 C?

rh

I'm not Charlie but I can answer your question with a definitive NO. 15 X 5 1/2 chrome wheels were introduced with the 68 year model 911s and 912s. A large portion of the 356Cs that are driven on a semi regular basis do have 5 1/2 wheels, though. A 5 1/2 wheel can be spotted from a long distance from the car by looking for the "safety bead" on the outer portion of the wheel. I'll post a spotters guide later in the day, then all the "Authenticity Police" will have another thing to point their fingers at. Look under "spotters guide to wheels"

Regards

[Charlie White]

Not that I know of.........I meant "stock 5.5 Porsche wheels", not stock to my 356-C.

CW

[Bob Paxton]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but something comes to mind when the
discussing the lowering of the back of a 356 (also include the VW bug) and
that is the outer wheel bearings. I remember getting quite the chewing from
an old german mechanic in Newburgh, NY (Xaver's...now a Benz repair shop)
when we used to reverse the rear bug rims and forcing the axles to point
upward. He told us we were going to starve the outer bearings and along
with the wider stance would put to much stress on the bearings. Has anyone
tore up any outer wheel bearing by proceeding with the lowering of a 356? I
love the look of a slightly lowered 356 but was wondering if there is a
point where more damage is possible and not worth the effort of going that
low! I am amazed at what is done with VW buses and bugs! They look like
toboggans with wheels!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Klingen" <stable356@earthlink.net>
To: <356talk@356registry.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:04 PM
Subject: [356Talk] Lowering a 356

Mark,
Chopping the hoop is not the way to lower the car, it has
its merits but for another reason. The lowering of the rear
of the 356 is a compromise between camber and height, the
lower you go the more negative camber you introduce into the
rear. Negative camber is not a bad thing but too much makes
the tires wear badly, you can have a less grip and bumps and
driveways become an issue.
There is a very limited amount of hoop you can change and
also the throttle linkage has to be modified to make a
straight connection.

Alan

Mark Pribanic wrote:

Here it is. There is also another link in this link at the end:

http://356registry.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=
<http://356registry.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=>


------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drive 'Em!

Mark Pribanic
1958 Coupe
Neptune Beach, Florida
Registry# 13617
Florida Owners Group
www.356FOG.com <http://www.356FOG.com>

------------------------
Alan Klingen
Owner, The Stable

Post generated using Mail2Forum via email.

[Greg Scallon]

Jarrod,
Obviously some folks here like the stock ride height. If, however, you're still interested in lowering the front end a bit as your original post indicated, here is a post with some instructions that I'd saved from the old mail list. It's not 100% clear but it will at least give you a bit of info. I'd follow it up with a read of the factory manual or Elfrinks.(although Elfrinks is confusing on this topic as well)

Or just contact Greg Banfill. He's on this list and should be able to give you all the info you need.

Regards,
-Greg

Lowering or raising the front end on the 356 is relatively
easy. You will need a 19mm wrench or socket, (preferably), and a 6mm allen key.
Jack the front of the car until the tires are well clear of
the ground and install suitable jackstands.
Now, when you crawl uinder the car, looking up at the two
torsion bar tubes, ( use a flashlight...remember, there is a gas tank up there,
so no hot lamps!), you will notice a pair of 19mm nuts on each tube. Start
with the top tube...loosen both 19mm nuts. Just loosen the lower one a turn or
so, but no more. The upper screw controls the movement of the torsion bar, so
loosen that one and mark one flat side of the nut with white chalk/paint. Now
insert the allen wrench and turn it counterclockwise until the marked side of
the nut is again facing you...this equates to one full turn of the screw. Cinch
up the 19mm nuts on both upper and lower adjustment screws and now move to
the lower torsion bars..do the same thing there.
When you lower the car, the torsion bars will be relaxed
and the front end lowered. If not happy with the ride height, just go back and
repaeat the procedure until you find a height that suits your purpose.
Raising the front end involves nothing more than turning
the allen headed bolts clockwise, instead of in the other direction.
Don`t forget to really tighten all four lock-nuts when done.
The procedure is fully explained in "Elfrinks" Manual,
(available at a low price, from Blocklab@aol.com). One of the oldest and
best/most complete books for the 356 owner.

[mikeschramm]

Negative camber is not a bad thing but too much makes
the tires wear badly

It not so much the Negative camber that wears the tires badly it is the TOE-IN that also goes with the negative camber ....the lower the rear the more negative camber AND the more toe in. This extreme "toe in" situation also makes the car handle strange, especially in the rain. In theory, If you want the rear lowered and retain the stock handling you must raise the trans to correct the camber and extend the spring plates to correct the toe-in.

[Greg Banfill]

Asking how to lower a 356 in here is usually more battle than it's worth.

I have lowered, heaven forbid, even slammed a 356 and still driven it regularly with nothing but good results.

Contact me directly greg@vintagewarehouse.com and I can give you ALL your options.

Some of my past work, which is frowned upon by most in here...

Dropped spindles, disk brakes (spindles are actually BEEFIER than stock), extended spring plates.





This picture say it all......... people LOVE this car. I'm sure with 99.9% accuracy it will out perform / handle any one of the naysayers stock configured cars and the ride would be just as nice if not better.



This one sold before I ever got to finish / drive it.



I can also do a dropped spindle with stock drum brakes, as Mike above can attest too. he has a set on his car.





That looks a bit beefier than stock as well...

[Jack Staggs]

Greg, please measure the size of the the spindle where the inner bearing mounts compared to the same location on B/C cars and explain to all of us how a shaft that is several millimeters smaller is "BEEFIER than stock. Which begs the question: why did the factory add additional metal to this area if the smaller "VW" size was adequate? Perhaps an advantage to adding unspung weight? I have seen several of the smaller spindles snap off at the base, particularly on the hollow left side. Never once on a B/C , even in off road applications.

[Jing Pong]

Greg, please measure the size of the the spindle where the inner bearing mounts compared to the same location on B/C cars and explain to all of us how a shaft that is several millimeters smaller is "BEEFIER than stock. Which begs the question: why did the factory add additional metal to this area if the smaller "VW" size was adequate? Perhaps an advantage to adding unspung weight? I have seen several of the smaller spindles snap off at the base, particularly on the hollow left side. Never once on a B/C , even in off road applications.

Please provide photos of the spindles that snapped off at the base.

[Cliff Murray]

Nice pictures of the slammed 356, static, in front of a burger joint. Reminds me of the show "Livin The Low Life" on Speed where the low rider guys can be seen driving very slowly on ultra smooth LA roads on the way to some car show where they hope to win the boom box competition.

I’m sure with 99.9% accuracy it will out perform / handle any one of the naysayers stock configured cars and the ride would be just as nice if not better.

How much money do you want to bet on that assertion? A good way to finish a road race last is to lower your race car too far. In order to maintain a good contact patch with the road, you must allow the suspension to move. When you limit travel too much the tires start to leave the road which means no grip. Based on your pictures, even though your dropped spindles allow travel to be maintained, the undercarriage will make contact with the road and therefore limit travel. The rear suspension is a bigger problem because, once lowered, the swing axles are very close to structurally important parts of the body. Get out your torch and ruin the integrity of you body.

Street performance is a much more complicated problem. Maybe not in LA, but on most of the roads on the planet, you would not drive your car more than 30 mph without fear of losing control. Even the lowering done to the typical racer is unbearable on East Coast roads. Bring that thing of yours to PA and we can have a little educational demonstration.

The way I bought it. Bounced all over the road, dragged muffler, had to raise to make car work well.


This car really sucked before I raised it up.

[Jon Schmid]

"...ultra smooth LA roads..." Somewhere in my dreams? I feel like I'm running the Baja 500 on most roads around here.
Jon

[Cliff Murray]

"...ultra smooth LA roads..." Somewhere in my dreams? I feel like I'm running the Baja 500 on most roads around here.
Jon

I don't know how much time you have spent driving on PA roads, but I have driven many miles on CA roads and they ARE ultra smooth in comparison. No contest.

[Jon Schmid]

Cliff: PM sent to maintain the thread integrity.
Jon

[Ron LaDow]

I haven't yet seen one of the dropped spindles in person, but someone who has commented that not only do you get the small shaft diameters, but you also get a cast-iron part in place of the original steel forging.
To anyone using them; true?
Thanks,
Ron LaDow

Post generated using Mail2Forum via email.

[mikeschramm]

Hi Ron, I believe that Greg uses CB performance splindles which are dropped forged. Not saying that someone else could use a cheap Chinese welded or cast iron spindle.

[mikeschramm]

Cliff, Thats a beautiful car.....high or low hahaha
Yes, I agree that if the car was lowered by turning/adjusting the torsions in the front then the ride was really bad. Because of the design of the front suspension the wheels travel in an arch. At stock height the wheels basically travel up and down in this arch BUT if the torsion are turned too much in an attempt to lower the car then the wheels travel in a front and back motion. So your wheels actually bump forward when you hit bumps in the road......making the ride really bad if not dangerous.

My car is lowered but not slammed.....I tried to do it the "right" way if there is such a thing, keeping the spirit of Porsche where excellence is expected. Makeing it better not worse...
but only time will tell.

Besides, mine is a B T5 and I was told that according to The Maestro it is the least desireable of all the 356 creations so no harm done right