Lowering a 356

For those who couldn't care less how their 356 left the factory!
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Mark Pribanic
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#31 Post by Mark Pribanic »

Personally, I like the look of stock, lowered & slammed 356's. Each for different reasons. Both sides of the fence have brought up good points and I think it is good to discuss the truths and misconceptions of both in a courteous manner. I do not see any positive outcome to getting all worked up about it. By having a civil discussion, all interested parties both for and against lowering or slamming, will have the facts out in the open. Thus, we will all learn, but most importantly those in the future will know the facts as well.
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S.J. Szabo

#32 Post by S.J. Szabo »

Mr. Banfill:

There is no question that Slamming is an acquired taste; and who could quibble about one's right to do whatever his conscience allows with any car one owns, for it is your taste and your right to express it.

However, you run into trouble with bold statements like "I'm sure with 99.9% accuracy it will out perform / handle any one of the naysayers stock configured cars and the ride would be just as nice if not better", first because it is clearly an expression of defensive opinion and secondly because it proposes a large load of bull as fact. While this sort of thing may play well to the rubes in the parking lot, this is definitely the wrong crowd to try it on.

Stick to extolling the joys of Stylin' and no one can object; talk about how cool it looks and who can complain. But please, don't pee on my shoe and tell me its raining... its a little bit insulting.

Oh, and do watch out for cigar butts in the road, not to mention the odd dead squirrel.....


Keep 'em flying.

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Greg Banfill
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#33 Post by Greg Banfill »

This discussion always turns into a pissing match usually with the stock crowd booing the non stock crowd and our ideas. Because of that lack of appreciation for thinking outside the box I usually steer clear of these forums all together.

However, I was asked to reply to this thread because of my knowledge on the subject, I didn't start it or wander across it while looking through the forum. I gave my input based on knowledge and experience.

Unlike most of the people commenting from the stock side I have and do drive both a stock and lowered 356 so I can speak intelligently on the subject with both points of view.

Mr. LaDow, Mr. Szabo, Mr. Murray can you speak with the same knowledge base?
I highly doubt it.

I won't say every lowered car rides great or handles better. If they did I'd lose 50% of my work, which is fixing other people backyard lowering jobs. But I will say a PROPERLY lowered car does.

In response to your question regard spindle sizes Jack, I do not have a C spindle at my shop to measure, but if it's the same as a B I'll get a picture / measurement tomorrow off a B spindle and dropped spindle for comparison.
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Cliff Murray

#34 Post by Cliff Murray »

Unlike most of the people commenting from the stock side I have and do drive both a stock and lowered 356 so I can speak intelligently on the subject with both points of view.
Greg- As I have stated, I have two cars that were lowered, not slammed, when I bought them and they did not work on PA roads. When I raised the cars, I stopped just short of stock. I used to own a Datsun 240Z with the BRE suspension kit and that did not work either. This is the reason that Porsche does not slam their cars. On rough roads the fast cars must have suspension travel and ground clearance. I believe that the Porsche success at the Targa Florio was due to superior suspension travel and control. The extreme example would be the factory 911 rally cars. I have no problem with people doing as they wish with their cars but it is not credible to state that a slammed car is functionally superior.

As for the warfare between the stock class and the custom class, you are at a disadvantage of numbers on this forum so you should expect negativity. Are street rodders welcomed by the original Model A lovers? Actually, this club is fairly accepting of non stock cars, like outlaws, but I think most of those cars are modified to enhance the Porsche ideals of function and do not sacrifice performance for appearance. If you love cars and a slammed 356 works for you, I think that is great!

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Lowering a 356

#35 Post by Ron LaDow »

"Mr. LaDow, ......can you speak with the same knowledge base?"

Yes.
Thanks,
Ron LaDow

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Greg Banfill
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#36 Post by Greg Banfill »

Cliff Murray wrote:As for the warfare between the stock class and the custom class, you are at a disadvantage of numbers on this forum so you should expect negativity.
As has been discussed off list I'm sure over time that will change as younger, not so into stock, folks are buying Porsche's these days and tweaking them to their liking.

You seem to have experience behind your statements and that I can appreciate.

Although we don't see eye to eye at least you are able to accept a persons car as their own. Not many others on here do.

If you're ever out in Nor Cal I invite you to take a ride in one of my lowered cars on our not so smooth roads and see if you have a change of mind.

Now back to the point at hand, how to lower a 356.

Does anyone have more input on this discussion?
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#37 Post by Jarrod Hartwig »

Greg Banfill wrote:
Cliff Murray wrote:As for the warfare between the stock class and the custom class, you are at a disadvantage of numbers on this forum so you should expect negativity.
As has been discussed off list I'm sure over time that will change as younger, not so into stock, folks are buying Porsche's these days and tweaking them to their liking.

You seem to have experience behind your statements and that I can appreciate.

Although we don't see eye to eye at least you are able to accept a persons car as their own. Not many others on here do.

If you're ever out in Nor Cal I invite you to take a ride in one of my lowered cars on our not so smooth roads and see if you have a change of mind.

Now back to the point at hand, how to lower a 356.

Does anyone have more input on this discussion?


I suppose that I fall into that demographic, being that I was 25 when I purchased the car last year. To be clear, it was not my intention to "slam" my 356, nor is it my intention to turn my tub into a rat rod. I had read previously that the stock suspension was designed to allow some adjustment and I was simply asking for guidance on how to do so, in the case that I decide to make any changes.

As owners of such facinating cars, I think we all can agree that there is no harm in learning as much about them as we are able, even if that includes the apparently taboo torsion bar system. Thank you to those who replied to my question.

My asking the question was inspired by a facebook acquaintance of mine and her 356A. I noticed that the ride height on her car was slightly lower than normal and quite frankly, I love the way it looks. Picture posted below:

Image
60' Coupe

"Is this the new Mazda?"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33355630@N03/

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Lowering a 356?

#38 Post by Dick Weiss »

The photo is a 1960 coupe? HMM; never seen one like it--must be an "outlaw".

Dick

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#39 Post by Greg Banfill »

I'll be the odd man out here and actually admit when I am wrong.

Jack, you are correct the inner bearing surface on the new spindles I use is 4mm - 5mm smaller than a B spindle. In fact that inner bearing diameter is the only spot smaller. Everything else is equal to or bigger than a stock spindle.

I still don't think that makes it less "beefier" as these pictures show.

Image

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I guess you can call that smaller bearing surface the weak link, but I have yet to see one break. I'm not sure what the original Porsche spindle was meant to handle, but anything that can repeatedly take this type of abuse and not break I'm sure will do OK on the street / closed course driving.

Image
Last edited by Greg Banfill on Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Greg Banfill
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Re: Lowering a 356?

#40 Post by Greg Banfill »

Dick Weiss wrote:The photo is a 1960 coupe? HMM; never seen one like it--must be an "outlaw".

Dick
If you read what he posted he is saying that's a picture of his friends car, that he likes the stance of.

I would guess this is his car.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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#41 Post by Charlie White »

Charlie White

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#42 Post by mikeschramm »

Jarrod, if that is your pictures then I have to say that I love one at the gas pump.

Also, Im sure someone here can give us an answer but the pre A and A cars -especially the speedsters- always look lower then the B and Cs. Some pictures I see of the later cars actually have a visible space between the top of the tires and the fenders. I personally do not like this gap that the early cars don't seem to have.

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#43 Post by Jack Staggs »

Greg, thank you for the pix you posted. Pre A and A cars were factory fitted with the smaller "VW" size spindles. I have seen a few of the small size left side spindles broken (mostly on VWs) in my lengthy career. I attribute this to the stress riser effect of the relatively small diameter shaft transitioning to the large base, coupled with a significant percentage of material removed from the center to accommodate the speedometer cable. Previous impacts were probably a factor. I don't have any examples to show, as I can only keep so much junk in my tiny shop. Having a low car is one thing, but to substitute a weaker part solely for appearance goes against my experience. I can only imagine the difficulty of getting safely off the road on three properly attached wheels. It is interesting that even VW went to the larger size spindle in '68 following Porsche's change in '60. BTW, I appreciate the knowledge and enthusiasm you bring.

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#44 Post by Jarrod Hartwig »

Charlie White wrote:Jerrod,

Is this the same car?

CW

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26820
Yes, that is indeed the same car.



And yes, the other photos are of me and my 60' 356 B.
Last edited by Jarrod Hartwig on Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
60' Coupe

"Is this the new Mazda?"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33355630@N03/

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Greg Banfill
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#45 Post by Greg Banfill »

Jack Staggs wrote:Greg, thank you for the pix you posted. Pre A and A cars were factory fitted with the smaller "VW" size spindles. I have seen a few of the small size left side spindles broken (mostly on VWs) in my lengthy career. I attribute this to the stress riser effect of the relatively small diameter shaft transitioning to the large base, coupled with a significant percentage of material removed from the center to accommodate the speedometer cable. ...It is interesting that even VW went to the larger size spindle in '68 following Porsche's change in '60. BTW, I appreciate the knowledge and enthusiasm you bring.

Thanks for the appreciation.

With regards to the dropped spindles I use. The spindle shafts are the same size as the later T1's and T3's. With that in mind I suppose I am actually "upgrading" in a sense when I ad them since most of my work has been on Pre-A's and A's. Yes there have been a couple B's in my shop as well, but so far, no one has had any bad experiences. I think the new machined shaft pressed into the new thicker knuckle is definitely not going to bend or break without a tremendous amount of force being applied to it. I haven't done a C yet as I don't have one one hand to inspect the caliper mounts, etc. that the earlier cars don't have. Rest assured when I do I'll be posting up my handiwork.
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