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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:45 pm 
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Location: Malta (Europe)
Hello All,
Thanks for getting some time to read this tread.
So i had contacted a specialist in Europe to provide me with Pre-A Panels for my 55 project.
After noticing that the inner trunk walls where not Pre A but A i contacted the specialist and he told me that they could have made a mistake and that they could find me Pre A inner trunk walls.
After taking a trip to take back the panels, The Pre A inner trunk walls offered where not really the best panels i ever saw.

Anyway to cut a long story short I sent the pics of the inner panels offered to my body shop and he told me that they where not good for him so i turned them down.
And the Specialist sent me back a full refund (ok not the expenses i went through, never expected that..)

OK came back without any panels....
Looking at some treads and body shops i noticed that a Pre-A nose Panel is different than an A one, now it is quite obvious, but since few hours ago i never knew that they could be different.

I checked mine and although i had specified that my car was a Pre A the specialist sent me an A front nose Panel.

Is this Acceptable?
What would you do?
It already costed me the plane, a hired car, 3 nights in a hotel plus other expenses to take the trunk walls and some other panels back, shall i suffer such a mistake again myself.
Your thoughts would be highly appreciated.
Thanks

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:39 pm 
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IMO I would take the panel back! You have a pre-a and there are differences in the "a" panels.
You may find yourself spending a lot of time trying to get it to fit, now you have a choice, later you will not.
Get the correct part, there are a few Vendors on the forum that can certainly get you the correct part.
Just my 2 cents


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:03 pm 
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Have a look at Vintage Toys in Italy for noses and the luggage area side panels. Speedco NL can do noses as well, though I don't know if they regularly offer them. The shape and quality on Speedco's parts are excellent from what I can see. And of course you're looking for the type with turn signals close to the headlights and the v-shaped chin on the bottom.

The black nose panels from Porsche Classic that are supplied by various vendors are T2 noses. Not the same shape at the bottom and signal lights in the wrong place. You can modify them so they look right, but your body guy better be confident.

This is why it is good to do research first before cutting. And also why it's a bad idea to replace body parts wholesale. Perhaps it is needed in the case of your car, but the reproduction parts, including body panels, almost never fit, or have wrong shapes if they do fit, especially for pre-A cars.

If your body man can perfectly copy the existing nose panel on your car, then that's always the best bet in terms of fit, assuming your nose panel is not bent out of shape too much. The front luggage area side panels should be easy to make as well with the right tools and a correct pattern from your car. On those, you can also just do patching if there's only rust and no accident damage.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:54 pm 
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You might find it is easier to sell the nose panel instead of going to great trouble to return it. You may lose either way, but at least save a whole lot of time.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:17 pm 
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James Davies wrote:
Have a look at Vintage Toys in Italy for noses and the luggage area side panels. Speedco NL can do noses as well, though I don't know if they regularly offer them. The shape and quality on Speedco's parts are excellent from what I can see. And of course you're looking for the type with turn signals close to the headlights and the v-shaped chin on the bottom.

The black nose panels from Porsche Classic that are supplied by various vendors are T2 noses. Not the same shape at the bottom and signal lights in the wrong place. You can modify them so they look right, but your body guy better be confident.

This is why it is good to do research first before cutting. And also why it's a bad idea to replace body parts wholesale. Perhaps it is needed in the case of your car, but the reproduction parts, including body panels, almost never fit, or have wrong shapes if they do fit, especially for pre-A cars.

If your body man can perfectly copy the existing nose panel on your car, then that's always the best bet in terms of fit, assuming your nose panel is not bent out of shape too much. The front luggage area side panels should be easy to make as well with the right tools and a correct pattern from your car. On those, you can also just do patching if there's only rust and no accident damage.


Thanks James,
Spot on as always,
I had a look at vintage toys and their panels look very similar to Trevor Hammer.
Do you think they are as good as Trevor's panels? as it might be much easier buying from europe than The US although i wouldn't think twice getting them from The US if they are better.
Tried to have a look at Speedco NL but could not open the catalogue.
One thing for sure i will send the front nose panel back as obviously here in Malta there is no way i can sell it since there is no A models.
Next time i buy from this seller i will think twice as I don't think it is acceptable, to receive wrong panels from someone who has been into Porsche all his life, plus being one of the main collectors in europe.
Alex

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:56 pm 
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I don't know of anyone who does them completely right. The photo below shows what original pre-A noses look like (thanks to John Bingham, aka the Metal Surgeon). Notice the sharp creases forming a bevel, and notice the chin. This was how all pre-A and A T1 noses from Oct 1952 through at least 1957 were formed. As far as I can tell, none of the repro noses look like this. The black ones from Porsche classic carried by Stoddard have the bevel, but they have the signal lights in the lower mid-'56 onward location, and they don't have the chin. The Vintage toys ones don't have the bevel but do have the chin. Trevor's has a bevel, but no chin. Restoration Design might have one that is the right shape? Not sure.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Restoration Design do not manufacture this panels, they resell Vintage Toys ones. Look like is a no way out situation other than finding a used panel.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:43 pm 
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Interesting stuff James. Jon will hopefully start on my car soon and I know we will be needing a front clip. I will probably talk to Mike at Speedco to see what can be done. I know the guy who makes the panels for him and am sure he could add some of the features you describe if not present

With regard to the factory noses, the rain gutter area will require modification to be as original

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:57 pm 
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Ignacio & Joris,

I had a good look at the new Restoration Design nose at Hershey swap meet last month, and it looks very good! They're doing it in-house. It is a one-piece stamping, as original, and they seem to have got the shape right. The one I saw was a prototype. Will have to see what the final one looks like, but I'm pretty excited, as it looks spot-on.

I need a nose for my '53 coupe too, so I too will be keeping a close eye on developments. =)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:28 am 
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Hi James,

That is very good to know. Would be my preferred option as shipping a nose from Europe to Jon will be an expensive ordeal.

Joris

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:38 am 
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Yes, so far it is a prototype. Emory is fit testing it to see if needs any correction. According to RD, it will be available in 7 weeks. I'm still not sure if it will be blank or with cuts for the lights or two versions preA an A T1. I'll post the answer as soon as I get the info.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:53 am 
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To all
the stamping that Rod Emory is currently fitting is for an "A" nose. It is a one pc stamping that is for A noses without the extended "chin" , which are for the earlier cars. Rod is test fitting and checking all dimensions for fit and checking for correct location of the holes for the signal light and grille holes. Once we get confirmation that everything is okay we will move forward with production. If we have to make changes to the dies or the laser trim program this will take extra time. We hope to have the A noses available before the end of the summer. We will do an initial stamping of 75 pcs, which we feel will be sufficient inventory for a year. To facilitate making the A noses with the extended "chin" we will make a buck and hand form an extra pc which can be put into the A nose stamping. Making a set of dies which are close to $100,000, is not feasible for the small amount of the early A noses needed. We will also develop a buck to enable us to make the 1951 and early 1952 body bumper noses. We are going to endeavor to have all of these noses in stock so there will not be a wait time of 3-4 months. We also will have the A noses with and without the signal light holes and without the grille holes which will enable them to be used for the earlier cars. Since these A noses will be a one pc stamping they should be much more easier to fit the car and will look more like the factory pcs.
This project like the A/B hoods has taken a considerable effort and has been costly and we hope that they will fill a need in the marketplace, and that everyone will be happy with them. We are currently also working on chassis rails and other chassis parts for the 356 cars and also other body panels for the 911 and 914 cars as well. As always check our website for new parts and if you don't see what you need give us a call and we will try to help.
Mike

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:14 am 
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Mike, I'd like to thank you for the amount of work that you are devoting to developing good panels for our cars. Hopefully, you will be rewarded over time with the customer loyalty that you so richly deserve.

Cheers,
Wes

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Thanks Wes, we enjoy seeing these cars restored to the highest standards, plus we enjoy what we are doing. We have garnered much insight and knowledge as to how the cars were built and put together from this forum, and many individuals, who have helped us along the way.

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