Period Correct vs. numbers matching
- Mark Roth
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Re: Period Correct vs. numbers matching
I don't know why I got off on an S90 tangent. If the car was originally an SC, then the 912 engine is close enough. A S90 without an S90 engine is not an S90.
Mark Roth
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Re: Period Correct vs. numbers matching
Going further,
There's a difference in the face of the 912 casting vs the S90's--the 2-on each upper corner stud bosses are taller for the 912's
crossbar mounts (w/longer studs) and just the upper left boss stays intact and the other 3-should be cut down (I've done several) and change to the shorter studs.
Of coarse, there will be the 2-face ribs remaining between the upper left-over bosses to the pulley's seal-nose and can be seen above the sheet metal; Otherwise, exchange the 3rd piece having an S90 #. Then there's the case #s on the 2nd upper bolt boss @ the split line--easy to change.
Dick
There's a difference in the face of the 912 casting vs the S90's--the 2-on each upper corner stud bosses are taller for the 912's
crossbar mounts (w/longer studs) and just the upper left boss stays intact and the other 3-should be cut down (I've done several) and change to the shorter studs.
Of coarse, there will be the 2-face ribs remaining between the upper left-over bosses to the pulley's seal-nose and can be seen above the sheet metal; Otherwise, exchange the 3rd piece having an S90 #. Then there's the case #s on the 2nd upper bolt boss @ the split line--easy to change.
Dick
- Martin Benade
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Re: Period Correct vs. numbers matching
His car is really an SC, so no S90 parts around. Are you suggesting he grind off the case numbers? As per recent discussions here, it seems like there is no respectable reason to do that.
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- Greg Bryan
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Re: Period Correct vs. numbers matching
I think Dick was referring to machining down the four bosses on the 912 case third piece to approximate more closely the 356 third piece dimensions. The 912 had the bosses extended to accommodate the rear engine mount, as you probably already know. I posted some pictures within the last couple of years of a 912 engine 3rd piece machined similar to a 356 cover.
However, with the rising price of 912s, I wouldn't be so quick to machine a 912 motor so it makes it difficult to put it in a 912 again. The stock set-up for the 912 will work with the 356, there is some interference with the top corner nuts and the tin that goes behind the pulley, but nothing that can't be overcome.
However, with the rising price of 912s, I wouldn't be so quick to machine a 912 motor so it makes it difficult to put it in a 912 again. The stock set-up for the 912 will work with the 356, there is some interference with the top corner nuts and the tin that goes behind the pulley, but nothing that can't be overcome.
Greg Bryan
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Re: Period Correct vs. numbers matching
Greg Bryan wrote:I think Dick was referring to machining down the four bosses on the 912 case third piece to approximate more closely the 356 third piece dimensions. The 912 had the bosses extended to accommodate the rear engine mount, as you probably already know. I posted some pictures within the last couple of years of a 912 engine 3rd piece machined similar to a 356 cover.
However, with the rising price of 912s, I wouldn't be so quick to machine a 912 motor so it makes it difficult to put it in a 912 again. The stock set-up for the 912 will work with the 356, there is some interference with the top corner nuts and the tin that goes behind the pulley, but nothing that can't be overcome.
"Then there's the case #s on the 2nd upper bolt boss @ the split line--easy to change."
No, Greg; he did say to change numbers. Not acceptable.
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Period correct engine
A question for the group;
Yes or no; lacking the original engine, does having a "period correct" engine add to a cars value or desirability?
G Thies
Yes or no; lacking the original engine, does having a "period correct" engine add to a cars value or desirability?
G Thies
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Re: Period correct engine
Gary, seems like there would need to be a few more parameters to be able to answer your question. If the car was otherwise very original, a period correct engine would probably be more desirable than not. This would be especially true for very early cars. In many cases, particularly with B's and C's, if it not the original, some folks prefer a 912 engine. Others might be more concerned about the build and condition of the engine, rather than the year. Generally, period correct is a pretty good bet if the original in gone, but the value aspect would be quite subjective.
- Doug McDonnell
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Re: Period correct engine
Gary There was a time when "period correct" was touted as 2nd best to numbers matching. I have never undestood the rational. I prefer 912 C/SC for later case improvements, 12 bolt ring and pinion and large oil pump. Next for me would be a large oil pump engine with the late B engines with the extra 0 in front of the engine number, then the other large oil pump engines. And bottom of my list would be a small oil pump engine. This assumes similar build quality of the engine of each type.
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.
- Adam Wright
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Re: Period correct engine
In my experience a period correct motor on a well done car carries more weight than a later motor. A lot of the guys who are buying these cars now don't know small oil pump vs large oil pump, or any of the other later improvements. And the way most people drive these cars now it doesn't really matter. Most 356's are now at best weekend touring cars and at worst rolled off of trailer onto a nice lawn. Oil pumps doesn't affect either scenario.
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- Harlan Halsey
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Re: Period correct engine
Gary,
The answer is probably but that answer is also useless unless you are offered a choice of engine and probably not then. When buying a used car the buyers estimate of condition trumps everything else. Furthermore, buyers are different. Some are mechanically skilled and so may value body and interior condition more highly. Others may not fear paint or body work but know little of engine or transmission work. Some may want period correctness while others may want a hot rod.
Each sale is unique deal guided only by very general guidelines.
The answer is probably but that answer is also useless unless you are offered a choice of engine and probably not then. When buying a used car the buyers estimate of condition trumps everything else. Furthermore, buyers are different. Some are mechanically skilled and so may value body and interior condition more highly. Others may not fear paint or body work but know little of engine or transmission work. Some may want period correctness while others may want a hot rod.
Each sale is unique deal guided only by very general guidelines.
- Bill Lawless
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Re: Period Correct vs. numbers matching
If you were getting a performance benefit to make it a better driver, I would go for it. But you are not, leave it and enjoy!!!
Thanks,
Bill
65' 356 SC Cab Irish Green
82' SC Targa
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Bill
65' 356 SC Cab Irish Green
82' SC Targa
81 VW Westfalia with 2015 Forester Engine
BMW 64'-R50/2, 75'-BMW R90/6, 74' BMW R90/6, Yamaha BW350
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Re: Period correct engine
+ 1Adam Wright wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:41 am In my experience a period correct motor on a well done car carries more weight than a later motor. A lot of the guys who are buying these cars now don't know small oil pump vs large oil pump, or any of the other later improvements. And the way most people drive these cars now it doesn't really matter. Most 356's are now at best weekend touring cars and at worst rolled off of trailer onto a nice lawn. Oil pumps doesn't affect either scenario.
< Jeff >
Registry Member Since 1978
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Registry Member Since 1978
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- Martin Benade
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Re: Period Correct vs. numbers matching
In other words it depends on who is buying and what they care about.
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Re: Period Correct vs. numbers matching
Reviewing the posts, including one I did in 2016, and the very extensive and diverse comments, i have only one thing further to say; More beer!
The discussion reminds me of the parable of 4 men touching an elephant in a dark room and each being asked to describe what the elephant is like...
Someone did say very early on the essence of this discussion: What is your objective??
The discussion reminds me of the parable of 4 men touching an elephant in a dark room and each being asked to describe what the elephant is like...
Someone did say very early on the essence of this discussion: What is your objective??
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Re: Period Correct vs. numbers matching
33K original miles, 2nd owner.