Wil Mittelbach wrote:Can duplications of the Sigla logo etching on original windshields onto later replacement windshields considered to be fraudulent in respect to the originals, and relative to cars with painstakingly efforts taken to preserve their originality?
Don't think this is black or white. I am trying to determine the difference between etching a logo on a windshield and putting the Reutter badge back on a restored wing or applying the Energit stamps on relined brake shoes. I guess these are examples of restoration, not preservation. There is a lot of grey I suppose?
In my mind there is a clear difference between etching the Sigla logo and re-stamping an engine case. This, I feel is fraudulent.
Copyright would mean something if someone was trying to sell a production run of non-Sigla windshields and labeling them as Sigla. It would be fraud if the seller was trying to pass them off to buyers as period originals. None of this applies here.
In this case, it is a Sigla windshield that needs a period-correct Sigla marking on it so the car is restored correctly for the owner's enjoyment. In the same way that a Restoration Design fender is not 1950s German steel stamped by "Bambi" in Zuffenhausen, but if you are a good and careful enough body man, you can repair your car to that it looks like it has a German steel fender.
Or is the restorer supposed to cross-hatch replacement parts like they do on the Sistine Chapel, so it is very clear what is original and what is not? Should repro parts makers not make their parts *too* well, so they can be distinguished from originals?
This balance between restoring and original can be applied to every component on the car. Why single out windshield marks and not 90% of the sheet metal on the car? Why is it OK to try to get matching date wheels on cars that do not have them? Or maybe it's not? Is it bad to find a correct Bosch component with the correct date stamp to put on your restored (or original) car when the original component failed or was lost? Should every car have a list of non-original or repro parts to go with it when sold? These are all useful discussions when deciding how to restore your own car, and people can make their own decisions for their own cars.
Using the term "fraud" is not helpful or appropriate unless there's actually misrepresentation and information asymmetry happening in a transaction.
To add to the discussion about stencils, I have learned today that you can actually order a replacement windscreen from Pilkington Glass, which not only is OEM as Pilkington purchased Sigla back in the 60s, but also that they will actually etch the logo in the lower left corner as original. The usual lead time is 8 to 14 weeks, but my extremely helpful installer here in the UK will have it within 2, we placed the order yesterday. I will update this post once it arrives and has been installed. In the meantime if anybody requires glass work in the UK, email me and I will put you in touch with Sel, who not only knows a lot about 356s in general, but is also willing and able to tackle Speedster screens!
Interesting Pascal. Thanks for the info. It is the correct etched logo? Stoddard sells Sigla windshields with the Sigla logo on it too, but it is a modern logo. One can remove that logo and etch the period-correct one on it. It would be difficult (impossible?) to remove an incorrect etched logo.
Not sure, but we will know in about two weeks! If I had to guess, it would probably incorporate the current (required) European regulatory marks, the same way a current Dunlop bias ply tire needs to, but that's a price which I would be willing to pay for an OEM product.
Well, after a small hiccup in production, the new "original" Sigla windscreen arrived and was installed last evening. It was produced by Pilkington, owners of the Sigla name and copyright, in about one week from order to delivery. I have attached to this email a picture of the production label as well as a picture of the current version of the logo, as modified to meet current legal requirements. If anybody is interested in sourcing some of these screens, let me know by private email and I can put you in touch with my installer. As a small detail matter, the logo is not etched, but instead it is a special tape which gets bonded to the glass through production which, as I was told, has been the case since before our cars were new.
Edwin wrote:Early T2. The logo on the original shield was in the lower left corner so copied/etched this on the new windshield.
I've only seen the logo on original cars in the upper left of the windshield. This is the case on original windshield cars Ive owned from early T1, T2 and T5 and observation on other original cars. If someone has a factory original logo windshield with the logo position in the lower left, I'd be curious to see it. Also, my early '56 T1 has the earlier logo without the last line (D-06), while my late '58 T2 has the later logo with the last line.
