1955 Pre-A Interior questions

[Dennis Molnar]

My car is at the finishing stage of my 1955 Continental coupe and I have some questions on the interior.

Gray Wool headliner. Is the same gray wool used on the revel between the rear quarter window bottoms and the metal caps that cover and finish the upholstered rear qt. panel . and also is the same gray wool used at the revel between the rear window and the upholstered rear panel behind the seat? I know on A cars the vinyl headliner goes in these spaces. I thought the car may use the red vinyl that is used in the rest of the interior.

The piece of carpet and material that goes behind the bench seat and between this area and the rear panel. How are the edges finished . From the few photos I have looked at the edges appear to not have any binding on them, just look rolled and tucked under. The kit I have form Auto's International does not have binding on the edges . The pieces have to be trimmed to fit the area.

Does anyone have some close up photos of their headliner and this seat area they would care to share? It would be greatly appreciated.

Dennis

[James Davies]

Hi Dennis,

Have you seen '55 Continental chassis 52866 that Road Scholars restored?

http://www.road-scholars.com/1955-conti ... storation/

Truly an amazing restoration. And they were a stickler for originality. It looks to me like

1) Headlining material is on the A, B and C pillars, and at the back extends all the way down. Not sure if all Continentals are this way, but I suspect that if your upholstery is red, then it is headliner on the pillars. Some pre-As had upholstery material such as cord on the pillars, but generally only if it had muted colors from what I have seen.

2) The carpet on the back of the fold-down jump seat has the normal binding on it, just like the other carpet pieces. This is the same as on my '53 coupe (original interior) and every other '53-55 coupe I've seen.

Hope this helps!

[Steve Harrison]

Hello Dennis and James,

I am going to debate myself here a little bit. I had originaly posted that I thought that the Road Scholars car also was right with respect to the headliner,...but upon further reflection, I pulled my own post, and decided to start over. I dug out some pictures of a very well done car that my friend Lowell Sivey had,..and it shows vinyl upholstery covering the front and middle pillars. On the front it goes down and tucks into the aluminum piece at the dash, and on the up side of the pillar it stops basically at the corner of the windshield and makes a dash across the pillar and dies into the rubber strip. On the center pillar it starts at the bottom and goes up and dies just as the clothing hook starts to turn upward. I can't post pictures because they're,..well,..actual pictures, and I don't have a scanner that works just now. In the rear the wool does come down all the way to tuck under the the metal trim cap, and also down from under the rear window glass downward. I believe this arrangement is right because it stands to reason that,..wool headliner material isn't very durable, and the front and middle pillars would get a decent amount of wear and tear on a car that was being used as a car,..as they were back when new. Vinyl, (or leather) would be a durable choice there and it just makes sense to me. This car has bright red vinyl,..and it looks fine. The car is restored, but was restored from an original, and done with an eye to correctness so I believe it was done to mimic what was there. I have no reason to believe it wasn't.
My own car, had vinyl on the front and middle pillars also and, although very obviously a replacement, it's not as logical to replace something original you removed and change the material...I can't see the logic in that, so I figure it was vinyl taken off,.and vinyl put back on.
Jim Liberty's site also shows the 54 sunroof restoration he did with the tan upholstery on the front pillar,..not headliner. He doesn't have any pictures of the center pillar.

BUT,...there are one or two pictures in the forum photo gallery here that show what looks like headliner material on the front pillars,...even one of what I believe is one of Chuck Stoddard's cars. Hmm...dunno about this one. Too bad some of the old school Pre A fellows like Tom Birch don't post here,...this is the kind of thing that they'd probably know for sure.

The Scholars did a fine job on that car and it is very neat and clean. I do however have just a few other small nits to pick, (Hey,...this is the Authenticity Forum and it's allowed eh? haha)
First is the horn ring. I believe it's a cut down A model one, nicely done no doubt,..but the corners are just too "squared off" and that's the tell tale for me. Also,..chrome? I guess it's possible,..but I've never seen that before on a pre A. Those half rings are scarce, and I guess Brandon just couldn't get ahold of one.
The engine case stamping looks a little weird to me also,..a close up would be nice.
And if the transmission is numbered 47774 as they mention,...I'd love to see that stamping up close.

[James Davies]

Thanks Steve. I think you're right here. FWIW, my original '53 coupe has corduroy upholstery on the A and B pillars just as you describe above for the red vinyl. And this '53 "America" does as well, and the upholstery is original.

http://mjemotorsport.com/component/content/article/79.html

Also, how common was wool headliner? Was that a normal option on pre-A coupes? Does anyone know if their cars originally came with a wool headliner, or is this just what people put in because that is what is available in the aftermarket?

I ask because neither of the materials (wool or synthetic wool) that Autos Intl offers for headlining matches the original headliner on my car, though their "synthetic wool" is much closer in weight and feel. The original headliner on my car is brushed cotton twill. I'm still searching for the right material.

[Dennis Molnar]

I believe the Ingram car has gray vinyl on the A and B pillars. Which is correct. It is just hard to see with the gray vinyl against the gray headliner. My 1955 Coupe had original red vinyl on the A and B pillars up to where it meets the wool headliner. In fact there where red crayon marks on the paint where the transition take place. I found these when I removed the original vinyl. I have remnants of my original headliner and it appears to be very faded gray material. I am not sure if it is wool or something else. One of the original questions I had was did the gray wool headliner have the same placement in the lower area's as a typical latter vinyl headliner like in an A car. Its seems that this would be correct. My first thought was the durability of the wool headliner material at the bottom edge of the QT. windows. I know this is a very small area.
The other question I had was about how the edges were finished on the piece of carpet and material ( vinyl or corduroy) that goes from the bottom of the rear panel to the lower part of the back set cushion . The Ingram car shows binding on edges of this piece. From photos I have recently seen it appears this piece should not have binding on the edges. It looks like it is is just tucked under to finish the edges. I know on my 1956 all original Coupe it is finished this way. I do know that cabriolets of this time period do use binding on this piece of carpet. Any comments on this detail?

[Steve Harrison]

You talking about this piece Dennis?

[Dennis Molnar]

Steve
That is the piece. Do you know if this was original to your car? The edges are clearly bound.

Dennis

[Steve Harrison]

Ya know Dennis,..the short answer to that is, I just don't know.
I certainly didn't drive this thing off the lot in 55 and really,..that's the only way you can be certain that something is original. But I can tell you what I DO know about it.
I'd say the odds of it being original are fairly good, and I'll tell you why.

Here is a picture of the rear interior while I was taking it all apart. The headliner is obviously a later replacement, as is the upholstery. That's a fact,..the materials are modern. What I found going on with the super ratty carpet was that it was still attached with nails along with the vestiges of glue. You can see a row of nails sticking out of the metal at the turn of the parcel shelf. Pre A's originally had the nails, and I found zero extra nail holes,..sooo,..either someone was really really good at hitting all the old nail holes, (yea, right eh?) or this ratty carpet is the original stuff. It is backed in places by that brownish horsehair stuff that's found throughout the car as original soundproofing stuck in here and there. If it's NOT original,..someone went through a lot of trouble to make this stuff look (and smell, ha ha) like 60 year old carpet...
I just think it's original.

This car had never really been "restored",..it was more like it was "fixed up" sometime in the late sixties/early seventies by my reckoning. They patched over some rust holes with old signage and pop rivets,..bought a new upholstery kit, an A model headliner, and resprayed over the original Pearl Grey with one coat of off white,..that's it. Didn't even take off any of the trim or dash pieces,..just taped around them. I found all this when I disassembled it.

So,.to answer your question, the safest thing I can say is that it is "highly likely" that this carpet is original. (it even sports a much darker, thicker, blue vinyl "tail piece" than the 1970's-ish light blue upholstery found elsewhere.) It's a much prettier darker blue and I am assuming that's the color of the original upholstery as well. It's going back to that color soon. The Kardex just lists blue, no shade given,..in imitation leather. I'd love to upgrade to leather, Kardex be damned,..but it may not be in the cards due to the cost. We'll see.

And as for the headliner James, all I have ever heard is that they were wool. Nobody has ever, as far as I know, nailed exactly what it was. Original headliners are few and far between. I'd say that the Brett Johnson book was the closest to getting to the bottom of a lot of this stuff as anybody has ever gotten. He used surveys of original cars and owners, and also ran down a lot of stuff himself. Autos International probably has it right,..wool of some sort most common. I am encouraged to hear that the synthetic they offer has a closer "feel" as you say. It's a little less expensive, and truth be told, I'd figure it's a little less subject to changes in humidity that natural wool might.

[Steve Harrison]

And as an aside,... odd coincidence..I bought that original tool kit bag and yellow spare tire out of that 53 shown on the MJE Motorsport site you reference. Long strange story,..but suffice to say, everyone was happy.

[Eric Meyer]

here's a few shots of a Victor Miles Restoration that should help. Sadly this 1955 car was lost in the Santa Barbara "tea" fire a few years ago.

[Eric Meyer]

a couple of other angles...

[mats carlsson]

My car is at the finishing stage of my 1955 Continental coupe and I have some questions on the interior.

Gray Wool headliner. Is the same gray wool used on the revel between the rear quarter window bottoms and the metal caps that cover and finish the upholstered rear qt. panel . and also is the same gray wool used at the revel between the rear window and the upholstered rear panel behind the seat? I know on A cars the vinyl headliner goes in these spaces. I thought the car may use the red vinyl that is used in the rest of the interior.

The piece of carpet and material that goes behind the bench seat and between this area and the rear panel. How are the edges finished . From the few photos I have looked at the edges appear to not have any binding on them, just look rolled and tucked under. The kit I have form Auto's International does not have binding on the edges . The pieces have to be trimmed to fit the area.

Does anyone have some close up photos of their headliner and this seat area they would care to share? It would be greatly appreciated.

Dennis

hi Dennis

i found this in an old magazine.this is a new car. 1500 S ch: 52280. take a close look at the interior. not at all like all the overstuffed restored cars you mostly see today. try to get it like this!

[Steve Harrison]

That's an interesting radio mount Mats. Never seen it like that before.
And Eric,...would you have any close up pictures of the glove box clock in the Miles restoration car? Also, a close up of that radio would be nice too. It looks like its got a lot of bling factor...chromed faceplate? Never seen one like that before either.

[James Davies]

Very cool photos Mats! Thanks.

[James Davies]

Just adding a bit of info to this old thread. This is how the carpet was finished on the rear luggage shelf of my '53 coupe. Original carpet and cord. You can see they just folded over the edge about an inch and glued it in place on top of the horse hair sound deadening pad.