Pre A Owners Manual

[Robert Newton]

Help! I'm at the Parade Concours in Savanah with my 1950 Cab. I've never done
a full concours before and I've been told I need a 1950-51-52 Owners Manual or
I'll lose points! Can someone loan me an Owners manual. I need it by Monday
morning! I'll drive to pick it up, and return it Tuesday. Please,
George Dunn or George Bryan or Curt Danby.
Dick Brumme
240 375 4184
Marriott Courtyard
Savanah Georgia

[Tim Herman]

How did you make out Robert?

[George Alspaugh]

Tim- It looks like he finished 1st in class & 3rd in division. Took home a Zuffenhausen (silver) medal for scoring 297.2. Congratulations Richard!

[Tim Herman]

Great!!

[Bob Lee]

Help! I'm at the Parade Concours in Savanah with my 1950 Cab. I've never done
a full concours before and I've been told I need a 1950-51-52 Owners Manual or
I'll lose points! Can someone loan me an Owners manual. I need it by Monday
morning! I'll drive to pick it up, and return it Tuesday. Please,
George Dunn or George Bryan or Curt Danby.
Dick Brumme
240 375 4184
Marriott Courtyard
Savanah Georgia

Robert,
This is not the way a Concours is won ...By cheating!!! Your car wins because it has it's own owners manual not one from some other car. It's not about winning at all cost It's about knowing you and your car did it's best because of what it TRULY IS.

Reading this has not made my day Back Under my rock I go

Bob Lee
356 Registry member 16135
Porsche 356 club member
912 Registry member 1588-R

[roy mawbey]

Hey Bob,

Winning these shows surely revolves around how much money you spend changing a possibly half original car into often a virtually new one? A borrowed paper book really does not influence the matter at all. If these events were only made up of 'original as from the factory cars' then it might be different.

Of course I appreciate very much the excellent work carried out by experts to reach standards that are fantastic to look at. But you could say directly you are involving someone else to do the work on a car that you own, they should get the silver cup if it wins not yourself.

I must go now and Hoover my 52 year old 356 carpets, they look a little tired.

Roy
RHD356A super75 106954

[Bob Lee]

Hey Bob,

Winning these shows surely revolves around how much money you spend changing a possibly half original car into often a virtually new one? A borrowed paper book really does not influence the matter at all. If these events were only made up of 'original as from the factory cars' then it might be different.

Of course I appreciate very much the excellent work carried out by experts to reach standards that are fantastic to look at. But you could say directly you are involving someone else to do the work on a car that you own, they should get the silver cup if it wins not yourself.

I must go now and Hoover my 52 year old 356 carpets, they look a little tired.

Roy
RHD356A super75 106954

Hey Roy,
You missed the point....Why would you want to win knowing you borrowed a manaul to help you achive that win, plus asking a public forum for that help. At least it would have been a bit better that he would have bought one ...but too borrow one Sad
Bob

[steve shea]

What's the difference between borrowing and buying? It's for display! Look at all the parts one must buy or borrow or trade to complete a restoration. I have loaned items for concours to participants before. Just to help a brother in need. I got my stuff back everybody had a nice day. I think you are off base Bob Lee. I'm with Roy; I do not see any cheating. At a vintage race if someone borrows a part, or a jack, or jackstands or god forbid, holds a light or spins a wrench for himself or another competitor, is that cheating? It is good sportsmanship. You know level playing field. Just saying... SS

[Charlie White]

Bob,

I have to disagree! You wrote:

"This is not the way a Concours is won ...By cheating!!! Your car wins because it has it's own owners manual not one from some other car. It's not about winning at all cost ......."

Do you really think all those other cars in the Concours are 100% original? They're not! The majority have new paint, restored parts, repro parts, and used parts from other cars. Very few are 100% original. And unfortunately, these big Concours ARE all about winning at all costs! If a 50+ year old car was 100% all original, it wouldn't stand a chance in a major Concours. Robert Newton wasn't cheating.....he was just doing what everybody else does in a major Concours in one way or another.

CW

BTW: I don't know Robert Newton.

[Bob Lee]

Help! I'm at the Parade Concours in Savanah with my 1950 Cab. I've never done
a full concours before and I've been told I need a 1950-51-52 Owners Manual or
I'll lose points! Can someone loan me an Owners manual. I need it by Monday
morning! I'll drive to pick it up, and return it Tuesday. Please,
George Dunn or George Bryan or Curt Danby.
Dick Brumme
240 375 4184
Marriott Courtyard
Savanah Georgia

Robert,
I would like to retract the word "Cheating" in my remark about your quest to borrow a owners manual for your concours. I was totally out of order to state that

Good luck with your future concours.

Truly back under my rock I go
Bob Lee
356 Registry member 16135
Porsche 356 Club member
912 Registry member

[Robert Newton]

I was catching up on old posts last night and noticed all of the responses to this one, both good and not so good. After some thought (the potential for more humiliation), I decided that I must defend my honorable reputation. I attended the PCA Parade this year to help a good friend, Dick Brumme, prepare his car for the concour. Dick had never shown a car at any Parade, and I do not think he has ever experienced a full concour, certainly not like the PCA. I can attest to that as I lost a class and division win, when a judge ripped the seat cushion up to find some dirt on my Speedster at St Charles last year. The car we were showing is well known by now being the 3rd Cab built, and was recently recognized as the oldest Porsche in the country.
This car was impeccably restored by Lowell Sivey, known to many of you (primarily in the east). He has been restoring 356's for many years in a garage at his house. Because of the age of the car (The COA is a blank piece of paper), confirmed by the factory, it was necessary to make certain parts on the car, along with Dick scouring the world to find whatever could be found, at whatever price he could stomach, so showing up without an Owners Manual, was not of great concern to Dick, but was to many advising us at the Parade.
As Dick could not remember his sign on to the talk, he used mine and hence I am the culprit in soliciting a manual. As we did not get one, we became creative and went to Office Max Sunday morning and made up a manual from some German paperwork in Dick's files, actually written in German.
I do not know Bob Lee well, although we have talked on occasion at various WCH events. I cannot argue with Bob's statement, as that is how he feels. I do take exception to the use of the word "Cheating", as that is a personal attack on both Dick and I.
I have owned my 57 Speedster (Black/Red) for 46 years and have put a lot of miles on it driving from Kansas to both the ECH and WCH over the last several years. I will be at the WCH in Palm Springs, should you all wish to subject me to a public flogging, or perhaps even a lynching, as I am sure George Bryan will have some rope in Jerry's van.
Sorry for the long tirade.

Robert Newton
1957 Speedster
1962 T-5 Coupe (ex Race ride, soon to be Outlaw)
1964 Sunroof Coupe (Rust Free CA car)

[Geoff Daigle]

So, I've been looking around and trying to figure out what year my English language owner's manual is. I think the Pre-a split-windshield owner's manual I have is for a 1950 or 1951. The street address for Porsche changed in the front of the manuals for the 1952 edition I believe, plus they printed the 1952 date near the front.
Mine has no date and instead of the 1952 Porsche address of Neckarsulmer StraBe 85, my manual's address is Schwieberdinger StraBe 141.

Does anyone know what year my manual is?

Thanks!

Geoff

[Jim Perrin]

I don't know about now, but 30 years ago Porsche had a "Central Archive" at the factory and another archive at Weissach. I was at Weissach one time when I learned they had an archive there, and asked to see it. It was there that I saw a 1950 Porsche owner's manual; this was in the 1980's. It was quite different than the small red-cover ones usually seen in cars such as the 51, 52, etc. models. It did not have a red cover, and if I recall correctly it had a larger format. I'll look back in my notes if anyone has an interest, but unfortunately I did not think to ask for a copy of it. It was the only one I have ever seen.
If someone has gone to the trouble to figure out how to tell a 51 from a 52 from a 53 manual, I 'd appreciate knowing about it. I do know there are variations, as I have a small group of them. For example, there were ones with a red "PORSCHE" on the cover, a silver "PORSCHE" on the cover, plus I also seem to recall a gold "PORSCHE" on a cover.

Dick Brumme's car was indeed a very nice restoration by Lowell Sivey. It sold some years ago to a European buyer who flew to Ohio to look at it at Lowell's place. I imagine it is still in the same European collection.

Jim

[Geoff Daigle]

Hi Jim,

After checking with some other 356ers, we found a few things in the manual I have that seem different than the ’50 or ’52 versions. As I’ve been told, the 1950 cars did not have the dual action rear shocks, which were pictured in my manual. Mine also showed just the 1.1L and 1.3L engine specs, whereas the 1952 had specs on the 1.5L engines. The 1952 also had the turn signal stalk, whereas the 1951 just had an “Indicator Control Light” button on top of the dash above the radio. The 1952 manual said December 1952 on the second inside printed page and mine had no year noted. The 1952 had an address of Neckarsulmer StraBe 85, instead of the address of Schwieberdinger StraBe 141 in mine. Last thing, is my manual showed a fuel cock with R O C for Reserve, Open, Closed. In the 1952 manual, the designations were R A Z. Interesting that you saw different embossings on the front covers. Mine has the gold foil raised letters. That’s all I have for detective work. Hope that helps. And, noticing your email, if you’re a Carrera GTS guy, that’s pretty cool.

Take care,

Geoff

[Jim Perrin]

Thank you for all of the information Geoff! Geoff's comments refer to a 1951 owner's manual he has.
After my first posting, I emailed with a close friend who used to live and work in Germany, and who once owned a 1950 Porsche. When he visited the Weissach archives (earlier than my visit), they actually had two 1950 manuals, one of which was given to him. He wrote me that the manual was A4 size (similar to 8.5 x 11), vertical format, had a heavier dark red cover (which I had forgotten about), and that the pages were mimeographed black print on cheap, off white paper. The manual was accompanied by a mimeographed note that this is an interim owners manual to be replaced later by a standard manual. He further wrote that he understands it never was replaced by anything other than perhaps with a '51 manual.

Jim