got me to look at some areas of my '56 that were painted with a brush. It surprised me a bit to see that the factory found that level of quality acceptable, granted it was a technique used in normally not seen areas. Mine exhibits brush streaks, thick looking application and runs in several areas. What else can you folks comment on regarding the Porsche brush technique? Did the factory actually brush around the trunk rim adjacent to the seal (see pic)? Attached are several pics of my brushed areas which you will all likely recognize.Bruce Baker wrote: My guess is that the visible parts of the pins, especially the domed ends, if painted originally, were done with a brush AFTER assembly, like the screws on the door ends and the hardware for the lids, etc.
Brush Painted Parts
- Steve Vogel
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:28 pm
- Location: NE Kansas
Brush Painted Parts
Hi, I just read through the post on painted hinge pins, and mine are. Anyway Bruce's comment:
'56 356A Aquamarine Blue Metallic, 1600N, All original
- Sebastian Gaeta
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 3047
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:50 pm
- Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Brush Painted Parts
Hi Steve,
For you or anyone else that is interested in this, Neil's Book (www.neils356.com) details several areas of an original '58 coupe that are hand or brush painted, and items that were painted with the body. Some of them may surprise you.
Regards,
For you or anyone else that is interested in this, Neil's Book (www.neils356.com) details several areas of an original '58 coupe that are hand or brush painted, and items that were painted with the body. Some of them may surprise you.
Regards,
Sebastian Gaeta
www.arbormotion.com
Registry #8339
'65 C coupe
'64 C cab
-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle
www.arbormotion.com
Registry #8339
'65 C coupe
'64 C cab
-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 2024
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:34 am
- Location: Tampa area, FL
Re: Brush Painted Parts
Steve,Steve Vogel wrote:Hi, I just read through the post on painted hinge pins, and mine are. (That) got me to look at some areas of my '56 that were painted with a brush. It surprised me a bit to see that the factory found that level of quality acceptable, granted it was a technique used in normally not seen areas. Mine exhibits brush streaks, thick looking application and runs in several areas. What else can you folks comment on regarding the Porsche brush technique? Did the factory actually brush around the trunk rim adjacent to the seal (see pic)? No. Attached are several pics of my brushed areas which you will all likely recognize.
This may open the discussion again about which 356s had lids which were textured on the underside. I personally have only seen Karmann T-6 front lids with rough texture bordered by the untextured perimeter frame and never a rear lid underside textured by Porsche. I believe it was Rainer that related he had seen a '56 with the front lid textured. That was in a similar thread some time ago, but likely search-able.
Regardless of the texturing, the paint on yours around and under the lids is a combo of overspray, too much spray and maybe some brushing. The trace on the engine lid grill? That was painted while the grill was in place. Porsche didn't do that. The runs down from the holes in the front hinges? Someone trying too hard to get coverage and ......oops, too much. Porsche painted the hinges body color and then blackened the lower section afterward. Overspray over the blackened part wasn't Porsche's way.
The color of a silver blue metallic was a favorite of repaints in the '60 and '70s. Do you know the history of your '56 356?
Enjoy your 356. Just know that the paint on it now was not done by Porsche. Also know that no two 356s are EXACTLY alike, right down to the handpainted bits, blackening, over/underspray and "same" colors within any model/year. They were all unique.
The excellent reference to which Sebastian refers is still only ONE very well preserved A Coupe. The next one down the line could be very similar in most respects, but very different in others. We jokingly refer to this as "the Hans und Fritz effect."
BTW, you can't trust the pictures in a Factory manual. My T-5 B book has retouched photos that show in B&W that everything in the hinge area looks the same! Hinges, pins, the drift punching the pin..... It also shows that the Phillips machine screws holding the striker on the lockpost are black. AFAIK, that was only a trait (anomaly?) of a D'Ieteren T-6 Roadster.
Steve, this where Chuck House, if he has time, should duplicate your pictures with those of a similar but unmolested 356, as he likely owns something close, to add to the information in the various books available.
To paraphrase a couple of 356 experts; "Back under my can of brushable paint I go,"
"Dr. Brush"
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Re: Brush Painted Parts
Here is a list of brush painted parts for 1956/1957 T1 Speedsters and coupes. If your car has not been painted or otherwise tampered with (i.e. restored), please feel free to verify these and make comments or add additional items you have noted.
Dr. Brush the 2nd
Porsche 356A T1 Brush Painted Hardware and Components
356 Consulting, LLC
Tom Scott
Body Color
Hinge pins and cotter pins, door hinge bolts where hinges attach to body
Hood and engine lid bolts and nuts where the panels attach to the hinges
Bumper deco screws on inside of the front and rear bumper
Bolts on the upper hood latch
Hood handle studs located underside of hood
Striker screws located on the door jamb
Lower and upper hood latches
Black (satin to semi-gloss)
Spare tire loop and screws
Bumper bracket bolts and washers where brackets attach to body
Bumper bracket bolts and washers where brackets attach to bumpers
Gas tank strap bolts and washers
Steering inspection cover cheese head screws and washers
Spring plate covers bolts and washers
Seat hinge screws located at the front of the seat frames (Speedsters only)
Seat stand studs, nuts and washers mounted on the floor pan
Horn cover perimeter Fillister head screws
Hood and engine lid pull cable clamps
Door striker plate screws located on the rear door lock posts
Emergency brake tube nuts and washers located in front compartment
Yellow (Inspector’s Marking)
Fuse block fuse set screws
Horn wire located where wire attaches to horn (only one wire on each horn)
Positive battery terminal clamp
Red
Transmission filler cap located on side of transmission
Dr. Brush the 2nd
Porsche 356A T1 Brush Painted Hardware and Components
356 Consulting, LLC
Tom Scott
Body Color
Hinge pins and cotter pins, door hinge bolts where hinges attach to body
Hood and engine lid bolts and nuts where the panels attach to the hinges
Bumper deco screws on inside of the front and rear bumper
Bolts on the upper hood latch
Hood handle studs located underside of hood
Striker screws located on the door jamb
Lower and upper hood latches
Black (satin to semi-gloss)
Spare tire loop and screws
Bumper bracket bolts and washers where brackets attach to body
Bumper bracket bolts and washers where brackets attach to bumpers
Gas tank strap bolts and washers
Steering inspection cover cheese head screws and washers
Spring plate covers bolts and washers
Seat hinge screws located at the front of the seat frames (Speedsters only)
Seat stand studs, nuts and washers mounted on the floor pan
Horn cover perimeter Fillister head screws
Hood and engine lid pull cable clamps
Door striker plate screws located on the rear door lock posts
Emergency brake tube nuts and washers located in front compartment
Yellow (Inspector’s Marking)
Fuse block fuse set screws
Horn wire located where wire attaches to horn (only one wire on each horn)
Positive battery terminal clamp
Red
Transmission filler cap located on side of transmission
- Dennis ODonnell
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 777
- Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:44 pm
Re: Brush Painted Parts
Black hand-painted tubular dashboard supports, black hand painted- catch for rear lid, black hand-painted coiled wire ends in trunk for optional foglights, tan hand-painted rear seatback arms, ("oatmeal" carpet car). Also, a couple of "curls" of steel trimmings from original fabrication were left inside the tunnel by the hand throttle linkage; more evidence of hand-work. I'm the 2nd owner; car was unmodifed before me, '57 T-1.
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:29 pm
- Tag: Rule Number 9
- Location: Chicago Northwest Suburbs
Re: Brush Painted Parts
[quote="Tom Scott"]Here is a list of brush painted parts for 1956/1957 T1 Speedsters and coupes. If your car has not been painted or otherwise tampered with (i.e. restored), please feel free to verify these and make comments or add additional items you have noted.
Hi Tom,
Do you have a similar list of brush painted items for the 356C? I am especially interested in whether the hardware such as the bolts on the 356C bumper brackets at the bumper were painted or bright metal. I have learned from others that the inside of the bumpers could be painted either body color or black. Can you confirm this? The inside of the bumpers on my 356C were originally black. Another post mentions that the bumper deco hardware was hand painted with the body color, so it follows that if the inside of the bumpers are black, the hardware also would be black. Also, was the hood and engine lid hardware painted body color or bright metal?
Thanks,
Ed Leed
Hi Tom,
Do you have a similar list of brush painted items for the 356C? I am especially interested in whether the hardware such as the bolts on the 356C bumper brackets at the bumper were painted or bright metal. I have learned from others that the inside of the bumpers could be painted either body color or black. Can you confirm this? The inside of the bumpers on my 356C were originally black. Another post mentions that the bumper deco hardware was hand painted with the body color, so it follows that if the inside of the bumpers are black, the hardware also would be black. Also, was the hood and engine lid hardware painted body color or bright metal?
Thanks,
Ed Leed
Regards,
Ed Leed
Member # 1482, Joined September, 1974
'64 356 SC Coupe Champagne Yellow - Gone, owned 48 Yrs
'69 911 E Coupe Tangerine - Gone, owned 45 Yrs
'03 911 Targa Carrara White - Heat, A/C, heated seats and radio that can be heard at 100 MPH
Ed Leed
Member # 1482, Joined September, 1974
'64 356 SC Coupe Champagne Yellow - Gone, owned 48 Yrs
'69 911 E Coupe Tangerine - Gone, owned 45 Yrs
'03 911 Targa Carrara White - Heat, A/C, heated seats and radio that can be heard at 100 MPH
- Martin Benade
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 12184
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:52 am
- Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Brush Painted Parts
Steve, all those things look non-factory, with the exception of the Reutter tag which looks crisp with no paint on it. The amount of dirt under the paint on the door hinge for example, is not typical.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
- Greg Bryan
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 3692
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:05 pm
- Location: San Pedro, CA 90732; Fallen Leaf, CA 96150
- Contact:
Re: Brush Painted Parts
On the C, I'm of the opinion that the front hood hinges were painted while attached to the hood after alignment, then the part that sticks into the recess where it bolts to the body was hand painted black. This way, they maintain the alignment of the hood to body - the hood to hinge bolts are sprayed body color on original cars. Probably the same for the rear lid. I think the entire engine compartment was hand painted after the installation of the sound deadening. The screws and washers always seem to have black paint on them as does the hood latch receiver.
Also, it's pretty obvious that the hinge pins were removed and the hinge halves stayed in place to preserve alignment of the doors - that's why the bold heads are painted body color - they were in place during body painting.
Inside the front luggage compartment? May be sprayed but it would have be easier to brush it ...
I'm sure there are lots of other areas on the car that were touched up with a brush
Also, it's pretty obvious that the hinge pins were removed and the hinge halves stayed in place to preserve alignment of the doors - that's why the bold heads are painted body color - they were in place during body painting.
Inside the front luggage compartment? May be sprayed but it would have be easier to brush it ...
I'm sure there are lots of other areas on the car that were touched up with a brush
Greg Bryan
- Dan Macdonald
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1029
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:37 pm
- Location: Marin County, Calfornia
- Contact:
Re: Brush Painted Parts
Steve,
Not sure if this is what you are concerned about, but these two areas are where the body clips were welded together at the factory. They are not paint drips.
Not sure if this is what you are concerned about, but these two areas are where the body clips were welded together at the factory. They are not paint drips.
- Attachments
-
- IMG_1902.jpg (42.62 KiB) Viewed 4649 times
-
- IMG_1909.jpg (45.37 KiB) Viewed 4649 times
Dan Macdonald
'59 A Coupe (105327)
'57 Speedster (82954)
Registry #1921 (1982)
DMAIA@aol.com
My YouTube Channel: Tinmeister 356
'59 A Coupe (105327)
'57 Speedster (82954)
Registry #1921 (1982)
DMAIA@aol.com
My YouTube Channel: Tinmeister 356
- Gabe Renga
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:03 pm
- Location: Orange County, California
Re: Brush Painted Parts
Looking for sources for gloss and matt paint for brush on use on C Cab...Thanks...
Gabe
2018 Targa GTS
2006 997 S
2010 Cayenne GTS
1964 C Cab
------------------------
2018 Targa GTS
2006 997 S
2010 Cayenne GTS
1964 C Cab
------------------------
- Greg Bryan
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 3692
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:05 pm
- Location: San Pedro, CA 90732; Fallen Leaf, CA 96150
- Contact:
- Gabe Renga
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:03 pm
- Location: Orange County, California
Re: Brush Painted Parts
Thanks...
Gabe
2018 Targa GTS
2006 997 S
2010 Cayenne GTS
1964 C Cab
------------------------
2018 Targa GTS
2006 997 S
2010 Cayenne GTS
1964 C Cab
------------------------
- Chuck House
- Registry Hall of Fame
- Posts: 728
- Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:26 pm
Re: Brush Painted Parts
Guys, just to be accurate, I have never seen "matt" or "satin" paint anywhere on an original 356. That is a myth perpetuated by early concours judges and unfortunately has stuck (there are other examples like this). The closest thing to satin is the shifter base on B/C cars but it still has some gloss. Everything else, including sheet metal, gas tanks and all the black painted on hinges and undercoating was a cheap gloss paint applied over bare or unprepped surfaces. Naturally because it was sprayed over bare metal or quickly brushed on, it didn't have the ultra high gloss of finishing paint but it was plenty glossy enough. Age and fading/oxidation makes it look somewhat less glossy now but if you inspect carefully in more protected areas and look at period photos, including the "made by hand" video, you will see how glossy the black paint really was. I add a flattening agent to just take the edge off the gloss if using finishing paint. Eastwood's "Chassis Black" works OK too.
On a "C", the bolts holding the bumper brackets to the body were clear zinc plated and not painted, as were the torsion cover bolts. What the factory brush painted changed over the years with the trend being less manual steps as time went on. I've never seen the inside of a C bumper originally painted black on a non-black car but I haven't paid as much attention to C cars, especially later Cs.
I will add that I have seen semi gloss paint on an original '65 911.
On a "C", the bolts holding the bumper brackets to the body were clear zinc plated and not painted, as were the torsion cover bolts. What the factory brush painted changed over the years with the trend being less manual steps as time went on. I've never seen the inside of a C bumper originally painted black on a non-black car but I haven't paid as much attention to C cars, especially later Cs.
I will add that I have seen semi gloss paint on an original '65 911.
Chuck House
Southern California
Southern California
- Mike Wilson
- Classifieds Monitor
- Posts: 11492
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:37 pm
- Location: SW Los Angeles
Re: Brush Painted Parts
I found another finish that might be considered: Dulicolor Low Gloss Engine Enamel #DE1634.
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe