NOS and reproduction Sametime

[Roy Lock]

Last night I looked on the classifieds and found a 912 crankshaft listed as NOS in the main topic but reproduction in the description.

Was there a reproduction 912 crank? Who makes these?

The manufacturers markings are not crisp and clear as they should be for a HKU crank.

I need a crank and need help determining the true origin of this crank before going further.

Is this a Chinese or Brazilian copy?

[Barry Brisco]

For reference, I believe Roy is referring to this ad titled "Crankshaft 356 SC 912 NOS":
http://porsche356registry.org/classifie ... 93&catid=2

The ad states:

Stamped HKU Germany 249/6
It is a reproduction from Germany.

This article "The Acronym Game: NOS, OEM, NIB" attempts to make some sense of the meaning of "NOS":
http://porsche356registry.org/resources ... m-nib.html

NOS: "New Old Stock" is generally accepted to mean parts produced during the initial production run (when the 356 was a "new" car, from 1949 to 1965) and that have never been used on a car, therefore they appear "new", or at least as new as a 50-year old part can look. They would certainly be "original" as well. This term can be used incorrectly when applied to new looking parts that were actually made after the 356 was out of production, but some would argue that any replacement 356 part sold by Porsche in unused condition can be called "NOS".

Best regards,

[Jon Bunin]

Roy,

Original plain-bearing crankshafts for Porsche 356/912 were manufactured by ALFING KESSLER GmbH in Aalen, Germany.

[Jim Breazeale]

Roy

It is not "NOS" and I would not go so far as to say it is a "reproduction", either. That crank is made in Germany and I would describe it as a "replacement" crank. Jon may have another description of it, though. Jon Bunin, Alan Klingen and, Jack Staggs...your thoughts?

Regards

[Jon Bunin]

Jim,

I have no personal experience with HKU crankshafts. I think "replacement" or "aftermarket" are acceptable descriptions. It shouldn't be implied that these were ever "original" to a Porsche 356; I'm not aware that HKU was ever OE for any Porsche model. I'd be interested to hear Vic's opinion or experience, or Brad Ripley's knowledge of HKU.

[Brad Ripley]

Crank was sourced reportedly from Germany by two ex-pat Germany guys living in Calif, one was something like Kunkel and the other guy was Hans something --- I'm not making this up! Problem with the cranks was the width of con rod journals, usually too narrow. So they said grind a little off each side of the rod to make 'em fit! We had 50 or so of those on consignment and sold all of them eventually back in the late 70's.

[Roy Lock]

Thanks Brad for telling us the history of the HKU cranks. I'm now enlightened.

[Jim Breazeale]

Jim,

I have no personal experience with HKU crankshafts. I think "replacement" or "aftermarket" are acceptable descriptions. It shouldn't be implied that these were ever "original" to a Porsche 356; I'm not aware that HKU was ever OE for any Porsche model. I'd be interested to hear Vic's opinion or experience, or Brad Ripley's knowledge of HKU.

Jon

I did not mean to imply that it was "OE", just that it was made to replace an original crank. In my mind, a "reproduction" crank would have all the original markings, including "Made in Germany", except it is made in China.

Regards

[Barry Brisco]

The seller of the part at http://porsche356registry.org/classifie ... 93&catid=2 has stated "New old stock means that the original manufacturer is no longer producing them."

"NOS" does not mean "the original manufacturer is no longer producing them". It means the part was produced during the initial production run (when the 356 was a "new" car, from 1949 to 1965) and has not been used on a car, so that it appears "new", or at least as new as a 50-year old part can look. This term can be used incorrectly when applied to new looking parts that were actually made after the 356 was out of production, sometimes decades after.

Barry

[Jack Staggs]

Brad, weren't those the cranks that were allegedly made in Brazil, with the machining done in Germany? If so, I suspected they were CAST, not forged.

[Brad Ripley]

Jack, No, I believe that was another effort, maybe Valley Core earlier.

How to tell a casting from a forging or any part, not just a crank:

A casting will have a very thin parting line.
A forging will have a wide parting line.

See U-tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfZds5VP ... re=related

[Wes Bender]

Brad, I haven't heard the name, "Valley Core", for years. Those guys rebuilt an engine for me in 1965 because, of all things, a broken crank. Seemed to have a done a respectable job of it. Whatever happened to them?

Agree with Barry on the NOS interpretation. No way does it simply imply that the original manufacturer no longer makes them. Damned near everything would be NOS!

Cheers,
Wes

[Roy Lock]

For what ever reasons, we hold "NOS" parts in higher regard than OEM parts. There maybe a bit of truth to that, but "NOS" comes at a premium in value.

If I was less than ethical as a seller, I would loosen the terminology to include other parts not as defined by Barry Brisco's interpretation.

Also, how do we know that OEM parts are manufactured to the same standards as factory NOS parts?

In the case of cranks, for instance, how do we know if the cranks have the same/better heat treatment or stress relief as NOS parts? We don't yet we could potentially be paying the premium for a loose interpretation of NOS.

This does not include reproduced parts. Those are made to some standard too. But we are not paying the NOS label premium.