Oil Breather Hose - 356C

[Michael Billdt]

What is the correct oil breather hose for a 1964 356C? The one which is currently on the car is a braided rubber hose. In my research, I've noticed several cars with the ribbed rubber or plastic hose. In reviewing illustrations in the owners manual, I noticed that the hose has a smooth surface rather than the ribbed hose which is available through some vendors. Any insight would be appreciated.

Mike

[Dan Macdonald]

Call Jim at EASY. He's does the repro's which are perfect.

[Jim Breazeale]

What is the correct oil breather hose for a 1964 356C? The one which is currently on the car is a braided rubber hose. In my research, I've noticed several cars with the ribbed rubber or plastic hose. In reviewing illustrations in the owners manual, I noticed that the hose has a smooth surface rather than the ribbed hose which is available through some vendors. Any insight would be appreciated.

Mike

Michael

Here is a picture of an original hose and the reproduction hose. The better looking one is the repro. Porsche never had a proper illustration of the plactic hose that was used on all 356Cs and 356SCs. they only show a lousy picture of the rubber hose that came on cars with the "European" heater systems. That has caused much confusion in the Porsche community for years. I hope I have just cleared up any questions. My hose is correct in appearance and fits perfectly. It's only fault is that is much better than the original one and will last much longer. They are $44.95 and come with free shipping via USPS in the CONUS and also included are 2 correct Norma clamps. Thanks, Dan for the plug. Please excuse the shameless self promotion.

Regards

[Michael Billdt]

Dan and Jim,

Thank you! I appreciate the clarification.

Mike

[Emil Wojcik]

Jim, what's the correct hose for the European engines? I always thought they were the same as the US hose.

[Jim Breazeale]

The "European" version is a moulded rubber hose the makes a 90 degree bend and attaches to a tube welded to the small piece of sheetmetal surrounding the dipstick. Sorry I don't have an example to photograph. Maybe someone else can supply a picture? It, then just vents tward the ground like an earlier car.

Regards

[John Thiele]

I'm know this example is hardly conclusive, but I'm curious if some cars might have come with braided rubber hoses. When I bought it, my 64 C came with it's original engine out of the car while running on a 912 engine. The original engine had been replaced - as I found out later - because it had broken a piston at 70K miles......everything on that engine, as was the rest of the car, looked liked it had never been altered....

[Jim Breazeale]

[quote="John Thiele"]I'm know this example is hardly conclusive, but I'm curious if some cars might have come with braided rubber hoses. When I bought it, my 64 C came with it's original engine out of the car while running on a 912 engine. The original engine had been replaced - as I found out later - because it had broken a piston at 70K miles......everything on that engine, as was the rest of the car, looked liked it had never been altered....[/quote

I can say with confidence that no cars were delivered with braided hoses.

Regards

[Richard Milstead]

One of the truths that I have found through bitter experience in what limited research that I have done on 356 series cars is that one should “never say never and never say always”. Those old guys at the Factory back in the day had an annoying way of doing things differently that we think they should have, frustrating dogmatic perspectives on the true facts as WE want to think they should be. I was always under the impression that the ribbed plastic breather hoses that Jim has reproduced were actually later replacement parts that improved upon the original design that was used on C cars as delivered. I believed the original to be a smooth braided hose configuration. Given the above discussion I went back to the basic Factory documentation that I have access to, to see what Porsche said or showed at the time. First I looked at the C parts manual and the drawing as shown in figure 1/6C (dated 4/64) shows a smooth hose configuration with no depicted ribs but does not specify exactly what kind of smooth hose it was. I then checked the US Driver’s manual (10/64 printing although the pictures are identical to the 63 printing) and figure 44 page 53 shows a close up of the breather tube which is smooth and dark (presumably black) and the full engine photo on page 72 similarly shows a smooth tube although the color does not appear to be black but of a lighter hue. In both cases whether the hose has a braided cover is not clear from the figures. Looking at the German language Drivers manual (7/63) both Bild (fig) 44 and Bild (fig) 45 show the close ups of the breather tube which again is smooth and black. The full engine photo, again on page 72, shows a smooth dark breather tube as in the earlier figures. There is also no difference in configuration between the US and German (“Euro”) breather tubes in the way they connect between the oil canister (actually called oil breather in the Factory documentation) and the air cleaner. I guess these could all be retouched pictures or "mock ups". The Factory did do such things but somehow this seems very unlikely to me. Why do it if there was a real part that was visually different?
Not having been a Porsche guy back in the day I can not say that I have ever seen a known original engine configuration. From a practical point of view either the smooth (braided) or ribbed plastic do the same job. Were all “C” engines delivered with the ribbed plastic type of hose? I certainly can’t answer that question but the period factory documentation would seem to say there is some question about such an assertion.
Dick Milstead

[Jim Breazeale]

One of the truths that I have found through bitter experience in what limited research that I have done on 356 series cars is that one should “never say never and never say always”. Those old guys at the Factory back in the day had an annoying way of doing things differently that we think they should have, frustrating dogmatic perspectives on the true facts as WE want to think they should be. I was always under the impression that the ribbed plastic breather hoses that Jim has reproduced were actually later replacement parts that improved upon the original design that was used on C cars as delivered. I believed the original to be a smooth braided hose configuration. Given the above discussion I went back to the basic Factory documentation that I have access to, to see what Porsche said or showed at the time. First I looked at the C parts manual and the drawing as shown in figure 1/6C (dated 4/64) shows a smooth hose configuration with no depicted ribs but does not specify exactly what kind of smooth hose it was. I then checked the US Driver’s manual (10/64 printing although the pictures are identical to the 63 printing) and figure 44 page 53 shows a close up of the breather tube which is smooth and dark (presumably black) and the full engine photo on page 72 similarly shows a smooth tube although the color does not appear to be black but of a lighter hue. In both cases whether the hose has a braided cover is not clear from the figures. Looking at the German language Drivers manual (7/63) both Bild (fig) 44 and Bild (fig) 45 show the close ups of the breather tube which again is smooth and black. The full engine photo, again on page 72, shows a smooth dark breather tube as in the earlier figures. There is also no difference in configuration between the US and German (“Euro”) breather tubes in the way they connect between the oil canister (actually called oil breather in the Factory documentation) and the air cleaner. I guess these could all be retouched pictures or "mock ups". The Factory did do such things but somehow this seems very unlikely to me. Why do it if there was a real part that was visually different?
Not having been a Porsche guy back in the day I can not say that I have ever seen a known original engine configuration. From a practical point of view either the smooth (braided) or ribbed plastic do the same job. Were all “C” engines delivered with the ribbed plastic type of hose? I certainly can’t answer that question but the period factory documentation would seem to say there is some question about such an assertion.
Dick Milstead

Dick

Show me documented evidence of a US 356C or SC with a smooth hose and I'll eat my words. I do not like to say always or never, either, but in this case it is very clear that US cars got a plastic hose like the one pictured in my previous post. Not many of them have survived as they were of poor quality and got replaced with any number of hoses made from different materials. The smooth hoses pictured in many factory documents are the "European" version that does not connect to the air cleaner, at all. I am not sure whether the plastic hose was ever offered as a replacement part, either. My guess is that it was not, or it was superceeded by the 912 version that doesn't fit correctly. I was a "Porsche guy" back then, and always expected to see a plastic hose in a C or SC. The plastic hose continued to be used in the US delivered 912s also. It is a slightly different hose in that the 912 oil breather has a larger fitting where the hose connects. They used the same metal tube on the top of the right hand aircleaner to attach the oposite end of the hose. The 912 hose looks just likd the 356 one, except it has a slightly larger end on one end. Reading promotional literature and looking in part manuals just adds confusion, in this case. Looking under the lid 100s of original cars and being there "back in the day" trumps book learnin' in this case.

Regards

[Jim Breazeale]

The bulk ( I won't go so far as to say "all") of all the factory material written about 356C and SCs uses illustrations of European cars. All of the factory pamphlets of those cars use airbrushed pictures of European Cs and also airbrushed pictures of 356Bs. It is no surprise that there is no picture of a correct US ribbed plastic hose.

Regards

[Richard Milstead]

Jim,
OK. First the pictures I referenced in the previous post from the 7/63 German Language C/SC Driver's manual very clearly show the hose attached to the air cleaner on what is definitely a "Euro" C/SC engine. I'm sorry but I suggest thet you find a copy of that document and check it out. T6B era engines may have been done as you say but that is what the Factory showed in the Driver's manual for C cars delivered in Germany. As far as pictorial documentation of the use of Braided hoses in US (North American) delivery cars I refer you to two pictures in period magazines. The Febuary 1964 Road & Track road test article and the June 1964 Canada Track & Trafic issues both show pictures of 356C engines which are pretty clearly (even from the grainy pictures) braided breather hoses. Also the Feburary 1965 issue of Sports Car World (a Brit publication) also shows what appears to be a braided breather hose although the picture is poorer and it is not quite as obvious. The hose shown in that publication is not ribbed however. I don't think that the factory air brushed any of these pictures as they were taken by the magazine staff in each case.
As I said before I wasn't paying a lot of attention to such details "back in the day" (I was actually more interested in getting a date for Saturday nights as I recall) but I find it hard to discount the documentation and photographic evidence. I am going to be away for several days but when I return I will try to scan the photos I am refering to and see if the quality is good enough to post.
Dick Milstead

[Paul Hatfield]

I would be insane to disagree with Jim B. on anything 356 related, but here is some input from my experience with my car.
I think my car is fairly well documented as low mileage and original. But, I am the third owner which may negate all of what I am going to type here. If you think so, stop reading now....

My car came to me with a braided hose from the oil filler. I changed it out to the plastic ribbed one so as to stop arguing with others if mine is original or not. I kept the hose and still have it just in case. I will also add that the hose clamps that it attached with matched all the other hose clamps on the car- same manufacturer and wear/patina. The hose clamps on the braided hose were much larger than what would be needed for the thin walls of the plastic hose, so I could not use them on it. When tightened all the way, the clamps were still way to loose.

I can't say that the braided hose is/was original on my car. But it sure looked like it, and so did the hose clamps.

[Ben Wainscott]

As another data point, the oil breather hose on my 65 SC Euro Delivery coupe (which I bought in 1981 as the third owner) is as described by Paul Hatfield. A braided hose and clamps that appear to be original running form the oil filler to the right hand Solex air cleaner.

[Jim Breazeale]

Illustration in 356C suppliment. This is taken from an original book.

How many of you can spot all that is wrong with this illustration?

Regards