Difference between Reproduction and Original items

For those who obsess about exactly how their 356 left the factory!
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Jim Breazeale
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#46 Post by Jim Breazeale » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:44 pm

Bruce

You are showing your age, but your memory is still intact. Yes, the first generation of Aero mirrors did come with a screw instead of the special barrel nut. There were tons of those things sold in the mid and late 70s. The supplier did finally come out with the nut and offered them to all of us who sold those things as a retrofit part. Aero and Ponto mirrors have been repoped by many manufacturers in various countries since then.

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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#47 Post by Jim Breazeale » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:04 pm

Jon Bunin wrote:Jim,

I'm not sure what you mean by a "small gap". The yellowed plastic retainer comes together fairly flush- it's also somewhat translucent, not opaque. Would the small gap be from shrinkage?
Jon B.

Your mirror looks to be very original. The last Aero and Ponto mirrors that I had, had a small 1/2 circle gap in the plastic opposite of the joint of the plastic. I can oly guess it was put there to allow the mirror to breathe. It looked just like the mouse holes in old cartoons. I think I have some pictures in my archives. It will take a bit of effort to find them, though. the gap was put there in the assembly process. Definitely not from shrinkage.
Chuck House, where are you?
We could use a couple of pictures of the mirrors on your cars.

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Last edited by Jim Breazeale on Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#48 Post by Jim Breazeale » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:35 pm

Jon

Expand this picture and you will see a small white area opposite the joint. That is the "mouse hole" I'm talking about. It was present on the last two original unrestored mirrors I had. One was the Ponto in the picture and the other was an Aero. The mirror heads were exactly the same.
IMG_1508.JPG
Note: The mirror on the right is a Talbot Berlin and not part of this discussion
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#49 Post by Jim Breazeale » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:56 pm

Are we getting bored yet? If not, I'll think up some more drivel.
How about my original Durant mirror with the logo upside down? Should I put it on EBAY and offer it for some absurd sum? They do that with stamps, don't they?

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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#50 Post by Peter Silten » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:25 pm

Want to trade?
upside_down_plane_stamp.jpg
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#51 Post by Paul Hatfield » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:36 pm

When I dug out my braided hose for another post, I found my hood handle crest that came on my car. It is shown below, and I think it may be the original. Again, my car is a C if they changed over the years. I removed mine because the pin on the back had been glued on by the previous owner, and it was coming off!
The reproduction ones are quite good, and I am not sure if we can tell the difference, or if mine is original or not- but here is the picture. Posts about the differences greatly appreciated.
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#52 Post by Jon Bunin » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:50 pm

The first photo below is the crest & handle that came with my Roadster in 1976. I can't say with certainty it's original to the car, but have assumed it probably is. Any comments about the cloth piece beneath the fastener? The new crest & handle I purchased together in the late 70's as "genuine NOS", and is currently on the car. The crests are somewhat different, though the red portions of both are a similar opaque "orange"...
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#53 Post by Paul Hatfield » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:07 pm

Jon-
Thanks for the post as it is quite interesting. Look very carefully at the R in the word Porsche. The leg on it is different between your two photos. Your NOS one has an R the same as in the one I posted a picture of. Mine is clearly more red in the bars than yours, but the font of the word PORSCHE matches exactly- I think. Seems to me that the font of the word PORSCHE may be a good clue here?
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#54 Post by Sebastian Gaeta » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:28 am

Perhaps another good clue is the shape and width of the antler tynes. Here is a shot of a gauranteed 100% original factory crest from the '58 coupe in Neil's Book.

This crest appears to have attributes of both crest's from Jon's car.

DSC00408web shot.jpg
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#55 Post by Jon Bunin » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:11 am

Just for comparison, I found a printed image of the Porsche crest- on the cover of "Excellence Was Expected". Look at the "R" of "PORSCHE"- it matches only my older version. It's possible the different coachbuilders- Reutter, Drauz, Karmann, D'Ieteren- contracted different suppliers for crests, as they did with other items.
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#56 Post by Jon Bunin » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:13 am

Here's a photo of my Roadster in early 1960, taken for a magazine article. See if you can make out any crest details! Notice the Ponto Stabil mirror, electric antenna mast (retracted), SWF wiper arms, Hella 128's...
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#57 Post by Paul Hatfield » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:42 am

Sabastian-
In the picture you posted, the R in the word PORSCHE again has the leg as I described in my earlier post. It really only matches Jon's second photo in my opinion.
Jon-
I think one of the interesting things about the hood handle crest is that the manufacturing techniques back then actually did NOT get the font for the R exactly the same as in printed material. A theory would be that the tooling to make the crest was approved, but it wasn't exact.
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#58 Post by Sebastian Gaeta » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:00 pm

Paul Hatfield wrote:Sabastian-
In the picture you posted, the R in the word PORSCHE again has the leg as I described in my earlier post. It really only matches Jon's second photo in my opinion.
Hi Paul,

Yes, the "R" on the crest from the '58 does match the second photo, but the horse's mane and the shape of the antler tynes are closer to the crest shown in Jon's first photo.
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#59 Post by Paul Hatfield » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:14 pm

Here is another comparison. I took my old hood crest and put it next to a very old hubcap crest I have laying around the garage. You'll notice the red in the crest matches but that the R in PORSCHE certainly doesn't. Pictures of both backs shown below as well. I was able to clean most of the glue from the back of the hood handle crest.

Photos are taken with a flash.

I am not representing either of them as original, but I can say they are both old.
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#60 Post by Jon Bunin » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:05 pm

Paul,

Here's another old hubcap crest, similar to yours, same "R" of "PORSCHE", except the colored bars are more orange than red.

I don't believe there was one definitive hood crest, exact in all details, that covered a 10-year span of 356A/B/C and all coachbuilders. I'd still like to see other examples, and maybe establish a trend in details or colors.

Doesn't Mr Ripley have any information or opinions on this???
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