Difference between Reproduction and Original items

For those who obsess about exactly how their 356 left the factory!
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ray nelson
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#61 Post by ray nelson »

Very likely Porsche used several different suppliers for these items but probably "Branded" or standardized at some point. Hence some minor differences on early cars.
The hood crest on my '82 911 SC has a crest very similar to the one Sebastian posted with the straight leg on the R and the fine antlers and detailed mane and tail on the horse. The only significant difference besides the size is that the red bars are really red and do not have an orange tint. Could be just the photo though. the crest on my '82 is as it came from the factory.

Ray

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Sebastian Gaeta
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#62 Post by Sebastian Gaeta »

Here is a shot of an NOS '58 Super Hubcap and crest from Chuck Stoddard's collection. He pulled a box out of a drawer in his shop and unwrapped four of these, saying they were old stock from his dealership from just after opening in 1957.

Paul,

I owe you a return email regarding that story you mentioned and I will get back to you when things slow down a bit.
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Orange Crest.jpg
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'64 C cab

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2014 Boxster 981
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Sebastian Gaeta
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#63 Post by Sebastian Gaeta »

ray nelson wrote:... The only significant difference besides the size is that the red bars are really red and do not have an orange tint. Could be just the photo though. the crest on my '82 is as it came from the factory.

Ray
Hi Ray,

The crest changed in '74 and the bars changed from an orange cast to a translucent red cast, so yours is as it should be.
Sebastian Gaeta
www.arbormotion.com

Registry #8339

'65 C coupe
'64 C cab

-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle

Jon Bunin
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#64 Post by Jon Bunin »

Sebastian,

Very similar, though of course one is a hubcap crest, one a hood crest...
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Paul Hatfield
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#65 Post by Paul Hatfield »

Hmmm- No further opinions on crests, colors over the years, differences between original vs repro on crests (horn button, hood handle, or hubcap)?
Paul Hatfield
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Paul Hatfield
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#66 Post by Paul Hatfield »

Thought I'd post some pictures showing the difference between an original leather tire strap and a reproduction one. The repro's seem obvious right now, because the leather is new. Over time that will change, so knowing the other differences may be helpful.
Below are pictures of my distressed old leather made back in the 356 era and supplied originally by Porsche tire strap. Beneath that is a shot of a reproduction buckle for comparison.
Note the following:
The lines at the side of the leather strap are almost gone on the majority of the strap. I took a photo of the place were they were most visible- and they are very faint at that spot. In the reproduction straps, they are more pronounced.
The buckle is not identical. It is close, but not the same. The pin is cut off differently (straight cut) on the reproduction buckle whereas on the original it is cut to a point. I took one of the pictures with a sheet of paper under the pin so that this would show better.
The original buckles "sides" are not round. The top and bottom facing surfaces are flat, whereas the reproduction buckle is made of round stock.
Hope you can see this detail in my pictures- they are not the best.
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Tire Stap 001 (Large).jpg
Tire Stap 006 (Large).jpg
Tire Stap 007 (Large).jpg
Tire Stap 009 (Large).jpg
Tire Stap 003 (Large).jpg
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Paul Hatfield
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#67 Post by Paul Hatfield »

This may be a better shot of the overall strap. Taken with a better camera. I think you can zoom in twice.
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Paul Hatfield
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#68 Post by Paul Hatfield »

Posting this message for Roy Lock as he is having computer issues. The entire content of the post below is from Roy. All of the pictures ended up at the bottom of the message.
-----------------
Amongst several of my close friends we have had a discussion about REAL NOS and current OEM-NOS. The distinctions are buried in the minutia of details. These 3 simple letters, when combined in this combination stir up strong opinions and controversy.
Well, it depends on which side of the fence you sit on. If you are collecting, buying, or selling parts. Each has its own different meaning. If selling, then NOS means $$$ if you use that term. If buying, it also has the same connotation and its commensurate value, but you are on the opposite side of fence. If you are a collector, then NOS is cherished and put on a pedestal for all to see. There only a finite number of surviving NOS parts.
First off, to me, NOS means the item was manufactured during the period the car was manufactured. OEM/NOS means items distributed by the factory, it can be a current manufactured part being sold now. With those definitions to go by, I have assembled a series of NOS and OEM/NOS parts to show the deferences. As I said in the title, the devil is in the details. In this case I am not going to talk about specific parts, but the packaging of those parts. The exact cutoff of the various packaging and part tags is murky. I am not going to set an exact date to the cutoff, just to help you distinguish the different types of packaging and tags. There are more, but these are examples out of my personal collection. I only collect B/C parts of known origin. Those Pre A and A guys are on their own.
The example below is from the 60’s and very early 70’s. The color is yellow with brown lettering. Note style of the part tag. That tag is in Porsche maroon. It has “Made in Western Germany.”


The examples above were a transition packaging. The main bearing to the left has the yellow cardboard but note the difference in spare parts tag. This one is black. The box on the right of the bearing is newer style box. The transitional time frame I believe is in the mid to late 70’s.
There was another transitional period.

The newer style cardboard backing with the original style spare parts tag. As you can see, it various markings become murky. BTW, this is OEM, not NOS. Why? Early to mid 1960’s 356 hub cap crest on late 70’s cardboard backing. I know I bought it about that time frame and hung on to them.
My final example is this with modern cardboard backing and modern tag. Oh, they all say
“Made in Western Germany.” So, you cannot go by those words. This one I bought in 1982.

Now, some folks would consider all the above NOS. But, in my mind, the only items I consider NOS are the ones with the yellow cardboard backing, the others are OEM.
“The Devil is in the detail.” By paying attention to all these details will help you establish true value for the money. Don’t buy “NOS” unless you really know how to use the term and if the parts are truly NOS. In the short run, you will be saving a lot of money.
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#69 Post by Roy Lock »

Addendum:

The last picture showing the "OEM" Porsche script is what is available at your local Porsche dealership. He may not have it in stock, but can order it. You will be surprised at the price.

Also, in many cases, the OEM part is also the xact same part sold by our great Registry vendors. It just has the Porsche packaging and associated markup.

My computer issues are with posting pictures. They are of my own doing, not the website.
Roy Lock  
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Charlie White
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#70 Post by Charlie White »

Here are two I've had for many, many years...........real or repro?

CW
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Richard Milstead
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#71 Post by Richard Milstead »

Guys,
First, I tried to attach some pictures of what I believe to be an broken original tire strap that I found te battery box of my C Cab (161215) and a repro purchased either from Tweeks or Stoddard back in the early 1990’s. However I was informed that the picture files are too big and excede the allowed size of 1 MB so I will try to describe the combarison. The fragments of my original match the original strap shown in the pictures in Paul's post. On visual inspection other than one has new leather and the other is obviously dry rotted the original and the early repro are very similar. This repro looks very different from the one shown in Paul's post, however. The original strap was slightly longer (~1/2”) and very slightly wider than the repro. Actually, they are the same width at the tip (1 1/16”) but the width of the original is 1 1/8” at the buckle end versus 1 1/16” for the repro. I would believe that this was only manufacturing variation not by design. Otherwise, there are some minor differences in the buckle and keeper ( the original is a little cruder and the wire from which it is made is very slightly heavier). The main differentiation is in the rivets used to secure the buckle. Looking from the front they look very close in appearance but the back if the original rivets has a hollow center while the repro is solid. If I can figure how to compress the picture files to post them I will do so so that the comparison can be easier.
Second, relative to Roy’s comments on Porsche packaging, perhaps those old guys at the Factory are having a good laugh at our expense. Based upon information posted on the "Official" Porsche web site, the official company name didn’t become “Porsche AG” until 1973 following the Company going public in 1972. Therefore, any labeling of parts which specifically includes “Porsche AG” must, at least logically, mean that they were made POST 1973! This is probably reasonably reliable except if there was subsequent re-labeling of some parts based upon some other factor (inventory record modifications, local government regulations, etc.). Note only one of the parts labels shown in Roy’s pictures does not include “Porsche AG” in the labels. Were all of the others made after 1973? Perhaps and that is certainly the safe assumption, but then again I wonder what the old guys at the factory would think about this discussion?
Dick Milstead
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roy mawbey
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#72 Post by roy mawbey »

Dick,

I have found http://www.shrinkpictures.com suitable for resizing photos over the allowed maximum. When you open that site, click "browse" and when your document page opens if you have windows scroll through to the picture code you want, highlight it and click open. Then select 750 pixle and "good" for quality from the listing and click resize. Then when the page shows "download now" after about 2 minutes right click download now and in the dropdown click "save target "the new coding ref. should show in the box.
Then click save and the resized image should be on your documents. You can remove the shrink pictures coding and enter in the box a description of the picture you want to save.
If "downloading picture " is shown in the box and not a coding then click the cancel box and wait a minute longer and repeat sequence.

By the way a fair time ago I put some pics on the forum of my original 1959 leather tyre belt and with some dimensions I took. Maybe they might be of interest to someone:
beltpica.jpg
beltpicb.jpg
Roy
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Richard Milstead
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#73 Post by Richard Milstead »

Folks,
Many thanks to Roy Mawbey for the resizing link. I have posted below the comparison pictures that I refered to above. Close examination of the buckle on the original shows that it is squared rather than round probably indicating that it was either forged or swaged to get that cross section. The repro that I have is round wire of a slightly smaller diameter. The leather thickness between the two is very comparable and I suspect once the leather on the repro is treated it will darken to look a lot closer to the original's appearance.
Dick Milstead
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Etienne Kerkhoffs
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#74 Post by Etienne Kerkhoffs »

ray nelson wrote:Vic

The keys to the originality are:
1. the ends of the chevrons that end at the circle are round.
2. the depth of the circular depression is deeper than the one on the right.
3. the most subtle is the difference in the apex of the bottom chevron, the original one has a wee bit sharper apex.

Ray
Pedal rubbers again; I was talking with a friend about the original and repro pedal rubbers some time ago. And then, all of a sudden he sent me this picture from the 1956 Workshop Manual. You can see that the end of the chevrons are straight. (I looked at the other side of the picture to check the logo and number but I couldn't find any.. :wink: ).
But I also have a picture of original pedal rubbers in a modelyear 59 356A, These have the rounded chevrons ends.
So somewhere between 56 and 59 they changed from supplier, or the supplier changed the profile. Does anyone maybe knows when?

And is there a difference in early/late A and B/C pedal rubbers?

Thanks.
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pedal rubbers.jpg
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Russ Myers
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Re: Difference between Reproduction and Original items

#75 Post by Russ Myers »

Speedster spare tire straps. The dirty straps are the originals. The clean ones are reproductions.
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