Difference between Reproduction and Original items

[Richard Milstead]

Folks,
In terms of the differences in the various fuse packaging styles and dating them, the waters are very “murky”. Three different packaging styles are generally seen during the 356 era (although there may be others), i.e. the “Pudenz” plastic packs and the “DIN” which were seen with either red graphics or black graphics. Pudenz is a brand name for the manufacturer of the little plastic enclosed fuse pack shown in Carl’s post above. The pack contains several different sizes of fuse in the single package. The paper covered packages of fuses have only one size per package. Close inspection of the paper packs (from ones in my possession) does not show a manufacturer but only a DIN number (DIN 72581) which means that the pack was made to a specification published by Deutsches Institut für Normung (DIN), the German national standards organization. Various companies could make to this spec and I am aware of at least two variants of these packs, the ones with red lettering and the ones with black. A picture of the black variant is shown in Paul’s post and the red in Carl’s. Of fuse packs found in travel kits that I have seen it appears based upon original travel kits that the red pack is found in earlier kits while the black packaging are found in the later (eg 356 C) kits. However, this is tricky because the two most likely came from two different manufacturers (“Autosicherungen” translates as “car fuses”) and Porsche may have used either depending upon whose was “in stock” when the were assembling new travel kits. When dealers placed fuse packs on the glove box as part of preparing the car for delivery to the customer one would assume that either color (or maybe even the Pudenz plastic pack) could have been used depending what was in stock.
In terms of repros obviously Carl at OBP has reproduced Pudenz and the red variant while a few years ago someone (I believe Tom Keating) was selling these at Hershey based upon graphics obtained ( again I believe) from Victor Miles. While Carl’s are marked with OBP, the others had no specific makers mark although they were only made in one of the two fuse sizes.
On an editorial note I would like to commend Paul for having started this thread because I believe there is a great service in educating members of our community as to spotting the differences to help circumvent unintentional misidentification and/or even fraud. One of my real concerns as reproductions get better and prices go higher is that there are some very good “recreations” floating out there with no markings that identify them as such. While it is certainly true that there will always be a few folk who are able tell the difference, there is no reason why in making a repro, manufacturers can’t put on some small identifier or marking that can allow average enthusiasts to know what they are buying. Carl Bauer at Orange Bar Products has done a tremendous job of this without sacrificing the quality of his reproductions and should be a model for others. I understand that some types of parts are perhaps not the kind of thing that lend themselves to this or where this doesn't even make sense but as some in this thread have noted prices have reached the “Crazy” level on some things. Just my little “soap box”, others mileage may vary.
Dick Milstead

[Jim Breazeale]

Original and Repro 17/19 wrenches from 1962 tool kits. There appears to be many differences when you view them up close, other than the fact that one of them is 50 years older than the other one. The original one has some obvious casting marks that are not on the repro.

Regards

[Paul Hatfield]

Thanks Jim- great info.
I wonder if we could convince you to show the difference between the reproduction 356 C Durant side view mirror vs the original ones. The new ones are all over Evil-Bay, and it would be interesting to be able to tell the difference. Seems like the logo is very well copied, but I have heard the metal stamping at edges/folds may be different?

Pictures from anyone who could help us view the differences would sure help.
Thanks again,
Paul

[Jim Breazeale]

Paul

There have been numerous repros of that mirror starting in the 70s. I'll try and find as many examples as I can also take some shots of an original one. The logo is usually the first giveaway.

Regards

[John Lewenauer]

Original Durant. The slope of the base is more swoopy is the biggest giveaway. The swivel ball is different too. This one has a new mirror put in it. Unfortunately I don't have any close ups of the repro that WAS on the car.

You can definitely feel the difference between the two when you hold them.

[Jim Breazeale]

OriginalDurant mirrors

Note the stars on the logo

This mirror was put on my Cab in 1983. It was new in the box at the time

I am assuming that this mirror is the original one to my 65 356C
Note the logo is upside down!

We all must remember what St. Harry said about "assume"

The build quality and weight, as John stated, is usually vastly different. The bases on most repops look like a sack of walnuts.

Regards

[Jim Breazeale]

Lousy repop Durant mirrors that we have in stock

Note the crappy logo

The mirror glass on original Durant mirrors sits proud of the housing and has a bevel on the glass. The repop just has the metal cripmed over the edge of the glass and is crude in comparison.
I have the repops in stock and ready for immediate shipment. Any takers?

Regards

[Jim Breazeale]

In looking at the photo of John's mirror I have to say that the bevel on the glass is much larger that an original. Yup, I'm nitpicking but isn't that what we are doing here?

[Jim Breazeale]

Aero and Ponto Stabil mirrors.

These are much easier to spot as repros.
Unfortuantely, I don't have any original, unrestored examples of either one. I have sent my whole inventory of those to Victor Miles. I do have a couple of different repop examples, though.
The biggest mistake made by most of the repopers is that they use the wrong "Made in Germany" logo. The Aero and Ponto mirrors have stars that have longer points than the ones on the Durant mirrors. Most repop mirrors have the short star points, a dead giveaway, but not always!

Typical logo on Aero and Ponto mirrors. Wrong! It is a Durant logo

[Jon Bunin]

Jim,

Is this Ponto Stabil genuine? I don't know myself- the trademark is on the smaller part of the mirror, but "Made In Germany" is inboard, towards the stalk. Are there any other obvious differences between genuine and reproduction? It sounds like there were several reproductions over the years, some better than others...

[Jim Breazeale]

John

Your mirror is genuine. Would you mind taking a picture of the other side of the mirror?
Your mirror should have a yellowish plastic piece holding the mirror glass. The yellow could be just from age. The important thing is that it should have a small gap on one end, much like a mouse hole. None of the repros have this and I don't think it has ever been discussed before. Both the Aero and Ponto original, unrestored, mirrors have this feature.

Regards

[Jon Bunin]

Jim,

I'm not sure what you mean by a "small gap". The yellowed plastic retainer comes together fairly flush- it's also somewhat translucent, not opaque. Would the small gap be from shrinkage?

[John Lewenauer]

John

Your mirror is genuine. Would you mind taking a picture of the other side of the mirror?
Your mirror should have a yellowish plastic piece holding the mirror glass. The yellow could be just from age. The important thing is that it should have a small gap on one end, much like a mouse hole. None of the repros have this and I don't think it has ever been discussed before. Both the Aero and Ponto original, unrestored, mirrors have this feature.

Regards

Jim,
I know my mirror is genuine. As I stated above, I had the mirror glass replaced, which is why, as you noted, it sits proud. It's what my glass house did for me and I didn't make a big stink of it. It's set in some sort of adhesive. The original mirror was useless. You might also notice the margin on the rubber base is too wide. I used the repro one as I had to cover up marks on the paint from the previous mirror. The original rubber hugs the base much better and is a much slimmer profile.

So, I don't have the piece you'd like me to take a picture of. I had a fun time repairing the mirror so it would swivel after it broke because it was so rusted. But, it works!

[Bruce Baker]

Outside mirrors?

The easiest way to tell original from repro is to try to use one. The repro range of motion and adjustability is terrible.....

Aren't the repro mirrors from the same source regardless of style? Isn't that why the 'one logo fits all' approach makes one stamping die an economic plus for them?

Many years ago, the first clue that an Aero mirror was aftermarket was the lack of a barrel-headed bolt for adjustment tension that was tightened with a rod or drift. We'd keep the original part, have it plated, throw the rest away and put that one part on the repro. That worked then because the Authenticity Police had yet to be formed and the new mirror looked.....well, 'more original'.... and people were happy.

I have seen 356s done by a true master, very well known. 299.3 known. I found that lifting the rubber mats showed obvious buffing off of the "IM" logo on the undersides. They look 'more original' and make certain people happy.

On that note, personally I sadly see that the increase in Authenticity interest is conversely matched by driving the cars less. I know many who drove their 356s over 10k a year who are now down to less than 200...but the same cars are sho' purtier!

I see a new coffee table book in the future........"356 Porsche: D stands for Details, not Driven." To each, their own....thus each section on this site.

[Jim Breazeale]

John L

Yes, your mirror is genuine. You have taken a bit of artistic license restoring it, though. It came out beautiful, it is just a wee bit different than it was when new.
I am sorry that I caused some confusion.
My response about a mirror being genuine was meant for Jon Bunin. I will make sure that I properly identify who I am responding to in the future.
Jon, I won't misspell your name again, either. I know better.

Regards