1964 Karmann vs. Reutters body

[john schwamm]

I am looking at buying a 1964 356 C coupe that shows the serial as 128---, yet the door tag shows it to be a Karmann coupe. I thought those serial number runs were for the Reutters cars?
And the Karmanns started at 216---.
Could the Karmann tag be a repro and not correct or what is the correct way to tell on this?
Thanks,
John

[C J Murray]

Your serial number is Reutter. The tag is wrong especially if it has your 128XXX number stamped.

[Roy Lock]

I would check the other two easy to get to spots to make sure your car has the correct paint tag.

Look in the trunk area.

[john schwamm]

I would check the other two easy to get to spots to make sure your car has the correct paint tag.

Look in the trunk area.

What would I look for it the trunk area?
The Karmann tag on the door post has the 128 and other three numbers, but that should then be a Reutters tag, not Karman. Something is wrong, but this is a really nice car otherwise.

[Roy Lock]

I should have been clearer when I said to check the other two locations.
Check in the trunk to verify that 128XXX is the chassis number. That the chassis number on the door paint tag is correct.

[john schwamm]

I should have been clearer when I said to check the other two locations.
Check in the trunk to verify that 128XXX is the chassis number. That the chassis number on the door paint tag is correct.

If they all match as doors and hood and engine cover do, could then the Karmann serial tag and numbers shown be correct and not have to be a Reutters tag? I just thought all Reutters were the 128--- and up and Karmann was 216--- and up.

[Vic Skirmants]

There is no way your listed serial number would have a Karmann tag.
Except that whoever restored it could only find a blank Karmann tag to stamp.
It did not come from the factory that way.

[C J Murray]

John- Sometimes we "experts" know too much and therefore do not explain so that new guys get the whole picture. The "main", and most relied on, serial number is stamped into the trunk floor just behind the steel loop that bolts to the trunk floor for the spare tire strap. You will have to lift up the trunk liner to see it. The lids and doors have the last 2 or 3 digits of the serial number stamped into them but the interior door panels cover the numbers on the doors. The hood lid is stamped at the driver's hinge area. The engine lid is stamped in the rain tray, upper right, under the grills. There are some cars with numbers stamped behind the plate with the tags in the door jams. The tags in the driver's door jam are the most likely to be wrong because they are easily changed and the painted piece they rivet to is sometimes from another car. 99.9% of the time you just go by the number in the floor of the trunk even though I know someone that used to change those numbers when he had a salvage title on a repairable car and a clear title on a car that was beyond repair. He also bought a number of Speedster wrecks and welded the "good" end from each together to make a saleable car. Could we call these "two owner original owner" Speedsters?

My guess is that somebody that didn't know better used the wrong blank plate.

All Karmann numbers start with 2.

[Vic Skirmants]

Cliff,
One minor correction. The "secret" body number is behind the passenger-side plate, not behind the driver's-side plate that has the body number and paint code plates.

[john schwamm]

John- Sometimes we "experts" know too much and therefore do not explain so that new guys get the whole picture. The "main", and most relied on, serial number is stamped into the trunk floor just behind the steel loop that bolts to the trunk floor for the spare tire strap. You will have to lift up the trunk liner to see it. The lids and doors have the last 2 or 3 digits of the serial number stamped into them but the interior door panels cover the numbers on the doors. The hood lid is stamped at the driver's hinge area. The engine lid is stamped in the rain tray, upper right, under the grills. There are some cars with numbers stamped behind the plate with the tags in the door jams. The tags in the driver's door jam are the most likely to be wrong because they are easily changed and the painted piece they rivet to is sometimes from another car. 99.9% of the time you just go by the number in the floor of the trunk even though I know someone that used to change those numbers when he had a salvage title on a repairable car and a clear title on a car that was beyond repair. He also bought a number of Speedster wrecks and welded the "good" end from each together to make a saleable car. Could we call these "two owner original owner" Speedsters?

My guess is that somebody that didn't know better used the wrong blank plate.

All Karmann numbers start with 2.

Assuming all numbers then 'match' in these areas, one should just be able to obtain a correct Reutters tag for door jamb and stamp in the correct numbers and all is then ok?
Thanks for all the input.
John

[C J Murray]

Assuming all numbers then 'match' in these areas, one should just be able to obtain a correct Reutters tag for door jamb and stamp in the correct numbers and all is then ok?

Yes, just change the plate.

It is common that the lids and doors do not match if the car has been hit or rusted. We "experts" get all weak in the knees when everything matches.

[john schwamm]

Assuming all numbers then 'match' in these areas, one should just be able to obtain a correct Reutters tag for door jamb and stamp in the correct numbers and all is then ok?

Yes, just change the plate.

It is common that the lids and doors do not match if the car has been hit or rusted. We "experts" get all weak in the knees when everything matches.

Checked the data plate in trunk and it is correct 128---, so the Karmann tag on door is not, but sounds like no issue to correct that. The other panels/doors all match correctly.

Is it ok to have someone like Vic 'hot rod' the engine for more poweer and still be ok for not really changing things for appearance from stock? I just want a bit more performance as it is a C and needs a bit of hop up. Not sure how much 'purist' to stay with. It has been converted to 12 volt, so not really stock anyway now.

[C J Murray]

I would live with the car as a C until I was absolutely sure that I wanted more power. The C is a sweet car that runs better in the 700-4000rpm range than a SC. Any power upgrade is going to require giving up something in the sub 4000 range where you spend the most time. Drive a SC before deciding.

[Bruce Coffin]

Greetings.This is my first post and if I may chime in may I remind you to correct the color code. If this is the lovely car I see in the pictures it wears 6012 which I believe is 1960-1961 special color navy blue and you need 64xx.Sky blue is 6403.Correct me if I'm wrong.This would seem to suggest a restoration man somewhat unfamiliar with the marque but it certainly appears outwardly quite nice if it's the same one.
I'm still a 356 "wannabe" which I hope to correct and I do look forward to meeting many of you folks,you all sound (or read!) like such great people! KTF(see what a lurker I am?)Bruce Coffin Costa Mesa CA

[Bruce Coffin]

navy blue ,correct me if I'm wrong...ROYAL blue.I'll consider myself corrected and wish you all a fantastic new 365 days of 356ing. regards Bruce