Cutaway Transmission
- Thomas Seydoux
- 356 Fan
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Cutaway Transmission
This cutaway gearbox was executed at the factory, in the early Sixties, by a Porsche employee to complete his apprenticeship:
What type of transmission is it? Here are the numbers I found:
Underneath: 63232
Underneath: 741/20A
On the side: 741.301.101.10
In a small circle: 2/63
At the end (number partially visible due to the cutaway): 301 301 3
Thank you for your help,
What type of transmission is it? Here are the numbers I found:
Underneath: 63232
Underneath: 741/20A
On the side: 741.301.101.10
In a small circle: 2/63
At the end (number partially visible due to the cutaway): 301 301 3
Thank you for your help,
- Barry Brisco
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Re: Cutaway Transmission
I'm no expert, but I believe those numbers indicate it is a Type 741 built in the second week of 1963.
741.301.101.10 is the Porsche part number.
741.301.101.10 is the Porsche part number.
Barry Brisco
1959 356A Coupe 105553, Ivory / Brown
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1959 356A Coupe 105553, Ivory / Brown
2009 987 Cayman, Carrera White / Beige (daily driver)
- Charlie White
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Re: Cutaway Transmission
The transmission type 741/20A was for European 356B Carrera 2's with BBBD gearing, cast iron intermediate plate and 12-bolt final drive. Original factory cutaways, though, generally didn't have serial numbers.
Jon Bunin
- Thomas Seydoux
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Re: Cutaway Transmission
Thank you Jon for the info,
It seems that this gearbox may have been used (or raced?), and transformed into a cutaway after having been damaged?
It would have been logical for an apprentice to use a broken transmission for this sort of project rather than a new one.
I always thought that factory cutaways were not done at the factory, but by a specific company specialized in this type of work.
It seems that this gearbox may have been used (or raced?), and transformed into a cutaway after having been damaged?
It would have been logical for an apprentice to use a broken transmission for this sort of project rather than a new one.
I always thought that factory cutaways were not done at the factory, but by a specific company specialized in this type of work.
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Re: Cutaway Transmission
Thomas(?),
This is conjecture on my part, but I would think that flawed new parts, rejected by quality control, would make ideal candidates for such cutaways. Were they actually made at Porsche, I dont know, but I suspect they would've made some for car or trade shows, important dealers, etc., using new parts. I believe Jacques LeFriant owns an "original" cutaway transmission, un-numbered, with a floor stand for mounting. What you appear to have is a genuine Porsche Carrera 2 transmission, cut open for display purposes, a fascinating thing regardless of its background.
Here are two photos from 1963, of the Porsche of America training center in Teaneck, N.J.. In the classroom are three cutaway displays- a transmission, and both a pushrod and 4-cam engine. Some of my tools came from this training center.
This is conjecture on my part, but I would think that flawed new parts, rejected by quality control, would make ideal candidates for such cutaways. Were they actually made at Porsche, I dont know, but I suspect they would've made some for car or trade shows, important dealers, etc., using new parts. I believe Jacques LeFriant owns an "original" cutaway transmission, un-numbered, with a floor stand for mounting. What you appear to have is a genuine Porsche Carrera 2 transmission, cut open for display purposes, a fascinating thing regardless of its background.
Here are two photos from 1963, of the Porsche of America training center in Teaneck, N.J.. In the classroom are three cutaway displays- a transmission, and both a pushrod and 4-cam engine. Some of my tools came from this training center.
Jon Bunin
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Re: Cutaway Transmission
This transmission entered my database July of 2002, from Janos Szarvadi.
My records show it would have originally been built in March 1963.
Barry, the date in the circle is the CASTING date of the housing. In this case, second week of 1963. The BUILD date is stamped on the cross-ridge, ahead of the 741/xxx designation.
I vaguely remember commenting to Janos that it was interesting that the trans had the very early diff carrier and side-gears; I saw much closer views of the trans back then.
Side-note: from my database, it's obvious that the newly cast housings were not machined in a "first-in-first-out" order. I list transmissions that were machined/assembled long after the casting date, sometimes even after a fairly significant casting change. They did not throw anything away. Or made the dealer buy it for replacement stock.
Tranny questions? Contact me. Or Jon Bunin; but I have the data base of numbers.
My records show it would have originally been built in March 1963.
Barry, the date in the circle is the CASTING date of the housing. In this case, second week of 1963. The BUILD date is stamped on the cross-ridge, ahead of the 741/xxx designation.
I vaguely remember commenting to Janos that it was interesting that the trans had the very early diff carrier and side-gears; I saw much closer views of the trans back then.
Side-note: from my database, it's obvious that the newly cast housings were not machined in a "first-in-first-out" order. I list transmissions that were machined/assembled long after the casting date, sometimes even after a fairly significant casting change. They did not throw anything away. Or made the dealer buy it for replacement stock.
Tranny questions? Contact me. Or Jon Bunin; but I have the data base of numbers.
- C J Murray
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Re: Cutaway Transmission
That brings back memories! My father and I went there with a bunch of PCA members to hear a presentation on the new 356C. The cutaways were fascinating to me as a car crazy 11 or 12 year old. The building was not very large and I have a vague recollection of the area being sort of residential. I also remember the string of 356s blasting up the Jersey Turnpike.Jon Bunin wrote:Thomas(?),
This is conjecture on my part, but I would think that flawed new parts, rejected by quality control, would make ideal candidates for such cutaways. Were they actually made at Porsche, I dont know, but I suspect they would've made some for car or trade shows, important dealers, etc., using new parts. I believe Jacques LeFriant owns an "original" cutaway transmission, un-numbered, with a floor stand for mounting. What you appear to have is a genuine Porsche Carrera 2 transmission, cut open for display purposes, a fascinating thing regardless of its background.
Here are two photos from 1963, of the Porsche of America training center in Teaneck, N.J.. In the classroom are three cutaway displays- a transmission, and both a pushrod and 4-cam engine. Some of my tools came from this training center.
Cliff
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- Joris Koning
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Re: Cutaway Transmission
Jon, those pictures are fantastic, thanks for sharing!
I used to own a cutaway engine. I bought it from Gary Emory who owned it for years along with a cutaway 4-cam engine. The 4-cam went "missing" somewhere in it's life I believe after Gary lend it to someone. I sold my cut away engine to Larry Markham who restored it. It can be seen at his shop and I believe it may have been pictured in the registry magazine some time back.
Janos beat me to the cutaway trans on e-bay about 6-8 years back. I would have loved to have owned that one.
I used to own a cutaway engine. I bought it from Gary Emory who owned it for years along with a cutaway 4-cam engine. The 4-cam went "missing" somewhere in it's life I believe after Gary lend it to someone. I sold my cut away engine to Larry Markham who restored it. It can be seen at his shop and I believe it may have been pictured in the registry magazine some time back.
Janos beat me to the cutaway trans on e-bay about 6-8 years back. I would have loved to have owned that one.
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- Charlie White
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Re: Cutaway Transmission
Jon,
Is this the same "Chassis Car" as in your second picture?
CW
Is this the same "Chassis Car" as in your second picture?
CW
Charlie White
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Re: Cutaway Transmission
Charlie,
The chassis at PoA Teaneck appears to be an early 356B, as does the cutaway behind it. The cutaway, though, might be the same car you posted a photo of earlier, outside the Reutter plant- similar details, cutaway hubcaps, etc...
Joris,
Any photos of your old motor? Did it have a serial number? I seem to remember a cutaway 4-cam on display at the Cunningham museum in Costa Mesa many years ago, maybe Gary's. Much of the Cunningham collection went to Collier in Florida. The 4-cam in Teaneck was eventually aquired by Lake Underwood- somewhere I have a detailed photo of it.
The chassis at PoA Teaneck appears to be an early 356B, as does the cutaway behind it. The cutaway, though, might be the same car you posted a photo of earlier, outside the Reutter plant- similar details, cutaway hubcaps, etc...
Joris,
Any photos of your old motor? Did it have a serial number? I seem to remember a cutaway 4-cam on display at the Cunningham museum in Costa Mesa many years ago, maybe Gary's. Much of the Cunningham collection went to Collier in Florida. The 4-cam in Teaneck was eventually aquired by Lake Underwood- somewhere I have a detailed photo of it.
Jon Bunin