How many are left

[Henry Feiner]

This is an interesting question which I gave some thought to a while back.
In the absence of any reliable current survey figures, only an educated guess is possible and I think Pat Daily may be close.
Here is how I estimate it:-
Total 356 production Approx 76000
Approx 50% imported to US 38000
Approx 50% US imports to California 19000
Assume 50% Californian cars still exist 9500

Because of the lack of 356 body rust-proofing, very few examples in Europe, Scandinavia, Great Britain, Japan etc would have survived.
Only a few thousand were exported to Australia, Asia, and South America combined.
It's a reasonable assumption that outside of California and Arizona, either the snow (salt on roads) or humidity in the other US states would have had a high attrition rate on the 356s there?
Therefore I would guess, like Pat Daily, that between 10000-15000 max still exist in the USA?

[Jeffrey Fellman]

"in existence" is also a very fluid concept
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Boecker" <mboecker@gmx.de>
To: <356talk@356registry.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:11 AM
Subject: [356Talk] How many are left

I find this an interesting subject for discussion, and just like so much,
it depends on assumptions. Thus, there will be different numbers, some by
more knowledgeable people, others by taking a wild guess.
But these can merely be approximations.


Tom Farnam wrote:

.....Your number makes as much sense as anything, since the USA has no
coordinated national registration of motor vehicles. ....

Tom, while that surely holds for the state, we do have central
registration in Germany and that data is obtainable:

As per January 2007, 920 were registred.

From 1950 thru 1966, 77766 cars were produced all together:
356: 9.100
A: 20.541
B: 31.440
C: 16.685

I don't know how many of those stayed in Germany back then.
But I can take the production numbers in relation to what is currently
registrered:
356: 0.23 %
A: 0.52 %
B: 1.29 %
C: 2.32 %

Thus, 4,35% of total 356 production is currently registered in Germany.

Yet this only covers all 356 currently road registered, not those "hidden"
in collections. That figure will have slightly increased, due to
Dollar-weekness in the resulting import of 356s and the increased interest
in these cars in Germany.


Concerning the US, there are however, some precise and some rough numbers
for US export:
1951: 30
1952: 141
until mid 1953: 250
From '53 to '63 Max Hoffman(n!) never imported less than 35% of
production, some years topping 70%, and leveling off to 40% towards the
end [Porsche ceased contracts with Hoffman in '63 with the end of the B!
Of the 20.541 A around 50% went to the states.

Just some food for thought !!!!!!

------------------------
Martin
#19339

Post generated using Mail2Forum via email.

[Carl Zapffe]

Sounds like a lot of work for Rusty Wiley and a thousand clones of him!

Here's the link to Adam Wright's blog about that 356 graveyard:

http://www.unobtanium-inc.com/blogframeset.html

It's just heartbreaking to look at those pictures. My question, and I hope that Adam asked, is why did this guy specialize in having 356s dumped there? Really strange.

At some point all of these spare parts will never turn back into running cars because the rest of the 356 jigsaw puzzle will have become unavailable.

[Pat Daily]

As 356s originally imported to the US get restored to some extent, it seems many are destined for European buyers. A local sports car shop here in Richmond came upon a stash of old cars when an elderly gent passed on last year or so. Three were 356s, also Jags (120,140) and others. The 356s were mechanically restored and then shipped to Argentina for bodywork restoration, with the ultimate destination of France.

I also have an acquaintence locally who bought a 356 two years ago at one of the big auctions, drove it a bit and sold it to a gent in France.

As more of this happens, it will be harder to track numbers of US 356s in the future.

[Adam Wright]

P-
You make a good point, in the last few years a lot of cars have gone to Europe. Of the couple of dozen I sold last year all about a few went to Europe. I sent all the VINS to Bill Block, but they are now out of US circulation, at least until we start buying them back and the cycle starts anew...

[John Eaton]

One thought I had was to inquire with a prime vendor like NLA or Stoddard. If someone has a 356, they are bound to have been a customer at some point for at least one replacement item. Does anyone have a contact who might be willing to disclose how many customers they've had in the last 5 years or so? Of course as cars are traded / sold, the customers change and that would increase the total. So perhaps a count of customers by year might give an indication.

Just a thought.

[Guest]

Mark,
1952 (that is actual year not model year!) a total of 1297 356 were produced.
More specifically, 1057 Coupe and 240 convertibles.

Hope this helps....

Martin Do you know how many 52's were produced. My wife and I were just
discussing that point.

Mark Todorovich #4243
52 Coupe
56 Speedster
63 Cab?

Tom, while that surely holds for the state, we do have central
registration in Germany and that data is obtainable:

As per January 2007, 920 were registred.

From 1950 thru 1966, 77766 cars were produced all together:
356: 9.100
A: 20.541
B: 31.440
C: 16.685

I don't know how many of those stayed in Germany back then.
But I can take the production numbers in relation to what is currently
registrered:
356: 0.23 %
A: 0.52 %
B: 1.29 %
C: 2.32 %

Thus, 4,35% of total 356 production is currently registered in Germany.

Yet this only covers all 356 currently road registered, not those
"hidden" in collections. That figure will have slightly increased, due
to Dollar-weekness in the resulting import of 356s and the increased
interest in these cars in Germany.


Concerning the US, there are however, some precise and some rough
numbers for US export:
1951: 30
1952: 141
until mid 1953: 250
From '53 to '63 Max Hoffman(n!) never imported less than 35% of
production, some years topping 70%, and leveling off to 40% towards the
end [Porsche ceased contracts with Hoffman in '63 with the end of the B!
Of the 20.541 A around 50% went to the states.

Just some food for thought !!!!!!

[bruce tweddle]

Making the further assumption that the open 356 models (Speedsters, cabs, Ds, and Roadsters) are somewhat more likely to have rusted out and been junked than the coupes....

I disagree with this assumption. Open cars are more coveted than closed cars, so any open car in really bad shape would have been restored where a closed car in better shape would be scrapped.

Over in the VW Karmann Ghia world, coupe production outnumbered convertibles by a ratio of 5:1. The owner of House of Ghia (seller of KG restoration parts) reported that his customer database shows the current ratio at around 2-2.5:1, indicating a higher survival rate for convertibles.

[Eric Douglas]

Hi,

I read in a old Panorama, a member had sent in a Porsche registrations count in the US.
As of July 1959, 12.087 Porsches were registered. 4.468 were in California.


Eric

[Alain Buchert]

hello guys,
What is the current situation in 2018, How many are left ?

[Adam Wright]

hello guys,
What is the current situation in 2018, How many are left ?

I can say this, since I made the statement above lots more cars have gone back to Europe and at a higher rate. There are still lots of cars out there but the rarer ones seem to be drying up, like Pre-A's, I'm not finding them with as much regularity as I once did, same with Speedsters.

[Alain Buchert]

Yes, in Europe, they seem more numerous on the roads, because many are restored to their arrival from the USA, we have the last 356 A after 1957 or the BT5, a lot of T6, some C, but before 57 or Pre A and speedster, it’s not numerous.
Many of those who came to us are Barn Finds or bad conditions not drive for a very long time.
Can the last VIN DB give new quantities?
for preA and speedster the high prices, forces them to hide in the safes and never take them out, right?
Alain

[Mike DeJonge]

Pick one particular part which is the most often replaced. I will give up the number we have sold in the last 10 years if Stoddards will. From the combined number of sales, and the number of cars in Adams yard and a few other yards, a pretty close estimate can be made.
Not only is it interesting to see how many cars are still out there, manufacturers can then use that number to make decisions on which parts to produce

[Adam Wright]

Pick one particular part which is the most often replaced. I will give up the number we have sold in the last 10 years if Stoddards will. From the combined number of sales, and the number of cars in Adams yard and a few other yards, a pretty close estimate can be made.
Not only is it interesting to see how many cars are still out there, manufacturers can then use that number to make decisions on which parts to produce

Mike,
You can count them on Saturday if you want, some of the back ones are enjoying bee's so keep your distance.

[Mike DeJonge]

I've counted them before, usually 30-40 356 cars
a few of the wreckers in LA would probably total about 50 cars
private collectors in their own yards, not drive able, probably 50-75 cars, maybe even more

I believe that there are more cars on the road, being restored, sitting in yards or in barns hidden away, than we think.
I believe that the cars keep coming out of the woodwork, and you are one of the major guys doing this Adam. I keep hearing of cars here in Canada, and I wonder where they are coming from.
Porsche claims that 70% of the cars are still on the road or are in the process of being restored. I wouldn't be surprised if that was true or even if there are more. There are many hoarders out there, and we have seen many cars. Given today's values and parts availability, I am positive that the number of cars on the road will increase.