Yet another question on Rear Camber..

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Bill Lawless
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Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#1 Post by Bill Lawless »

On my 65' SC good old Henry Elfrink says the Radius Arm Angle should be:

-21* 30' without Compensator Spring
-17* with Compensator Spring

My car came with the Compensator Spring but was missing when I got the car.. And my guess, well measurements tell me they never adjusted the Radius Arm angle when the took the Spring off. I'm
getting about 15* 50' Which would explain my inside tire wear.

That was all a lead in to my Question:

I would like to set it at a 1* Negative Camber How do I get that? There must be some relationship of the Radius Arm angle of 21* 30' to the Camber Angle? Say set it to 21* even or 20* 30' Is the Elfrink # of 21*30' set at 0 Camber?

As usual Thanks Much.
-Bill
Oh, BTW I did order a full set of new T-Bar bushings...
 Thanks,
Bill
65' 356 SC Cab Irish Green :D
82' SC Targa
81 VW Westfalia with 2015 Forester Engine
BMW 64'-R50/2, 75'-BMW R90/6, 74' BMW R90/6, Yamaha BW350

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#2 Post by Doug McDonnell »

1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Martin Benade
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#3 Post by Martin Benade »

If you search “camber vs radius arm angle “ you will see where Jacques says that camber angle changes approximately equal to a change in radius arm angle. So if you get a current camber reading at an alignment shop you can figure what change you want, and adjust the arms accordingly.
I am not of the age where posting links is easy. I am sure I could figure out how, but I just don’t feel like it. Is this an early sign of getting crotchety?
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Bill Lawless
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#4 Post by Bill Lawless »

Thanks Doug, I just printed that article...
Martin Benade wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:19 pm If you search “camber vs radius arm angle “ you will see where Jacques says that camber angle changes approximately equal to a change in radius arm angle. So if you get a current camber reading at an alignment shop you can figure what change you want, and adjust the arms accordingly.
I am not of the age where posting links is easy. I am sure I could figure out how, but I just don’t feel like it. Is this an early sign of getting crotchety?
Ahhh, Thanks Martin.. I found it and that is exactly what I needed to know...
Screen Shot 2020-02-28 at 6.25.12 AM.png
Screen Shot 2020-02-28 at 6.25.12 AM.png (54.75 KiB) Viewed 1692 times
 Thanks,
Bill
65' 356 SC Cab Irish Green :D
82' SC Targa
81 VW Westfalia with 2015 Forester Engine
BMW 64'-R50/2, 75'-BMW R90/6, 74' BMW R90/6, Yamaha BW350

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C J Murray
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#5 Post by C J Murray »

Do you have a picture of the car from the side? When parked you can get a rough idea of where you are. You can also use a standard angle gauge to estimate your camber. I like around 1* of camber on the street but I wouldn't take the car apart 3 times to get the exact number. Just get it into the ballpark but get them quite close to even side to side.
'57 Speedster
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Bill Lawless
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#6 Post by Bill Lawless »

Thanks C.J. It's now on the lift apart.. waiting for Torsion Bushing.. I spent a bit of time getting the car level and measured the angle with one of those iPhone apps.. And it was pretty low as I mention above..

I looked through some pictures I have and nothing straight on the side with the car level.. But the top of the rim was almost even with the fender..
Here is the best I have:
IMG_6156.jpg
IMG_6156.jpg (3.64 MiB) Viewed 1633 times
IMG_6161.jpg
IMG_6161.jpg (3.94 MiB) Viewed 1633 times
-Bill
 Thanks,
Bill
65' 356 SC Cab Irish Green :D
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81 VW Westfalia with 2015 Forester Engine
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#7 Post by C J Murray »

Nice car! I'm not sure the car isn't on uneven ground there and that makes a visual unreliable. It does look low though.

The stock settings may or may not be reliable to get to the correct stock height. On top of that most people like the feel of the car set slightly lower than stock. So I would be reluctant to go to the stock number. Because you know what angle you have been running and you want to be higher with less camber I would guess that you would want a degree or two more angle but a degree or so less than stock spec. So, where was it set and what is supposedly stock?
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#8 Post by Brad Ripley »

In case it helps, before any adjustments are made the car has to be perfectly level. The tunnel is the level place to measure, not the outer longitudinal -- see workshop manual diagram below.
Page R74 "Make sure the chassis is level by placing protractor VW 245a on the floor tunnel."
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Chassis drwg level line .jpg
Chassis drwg level line .jpg (98.89 KiB) Viewed 1605 times

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Martin Benade
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#9 Post by Martin Benade »

I thought your first picture looked just right and the second one looks a little too low, just the way I like it. Not sure which is more representative. Using a fairly negative setting never seemed to harm my tires that much.
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Bill Lawless
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#10 Post by Bill Lawless »

Brad Ripley wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:21 pm In case it helps, before any adjustments are made the car has to be perfectly level. The tunnel is the level place to measure, not the outer longitudinal -- see workshop manual diagram below.
Page R74 "Make sure the chassis is level by placing protractor VW 245a on the floor tunnel."
Thanks Brad, In the article that Doug linked to above, it gives you a " String" method as a level reference point without the car needing to be level...
But I was going to do both for a double check and my first thought was using the longitudes, was lazy and didn't want to move the carpet, but now I know!!!
 Thanks,
Bill
65' 356 SC Cab Irish Green :D
82' SC Targa
81 VW Westfalia with 2015 Forester Engine
BMW 64'-R50/2, 75'-BMW R90/6, 74' BMW R90/6, Yamaha BW350

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Bill Lawless
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#11 Post by Bill Lawless »

HELP!!
I got my Torsion Bar Bushings today and spent some time setting the Angle for the Radius Arm..
I used the method outline in this article https://porsche356registry.org/article/140 where you use a string as a level reference point and measure down to where the Axle Center is
I took it one step further and used an aluminum yard stick as a straight edge. Drilled a hole 1/2" from the edge and put it under the bumper mount bolt.
So I set it for the 20* mark to get about 1* of negative camber. In the Article 20* is 8.6 inches down from the level reference.. I played with it for a while but got it just about right on
the 8.6 inches to the Axle center on both sides...
Put it all back together and I got a gross Positive Camber on both sides... What did I do wrong.. and I did rolled the car 30-40 feet in each direction...
Here is so Pictures:
This is the Table: 20* = 8.6 inches down from reference:
IMG_7104.png
IMG_7104.png (290.83 KiB) Viewed 1468 times
This is the yard stick , straight edge as reference point:
IMG_7085.JPG
IMG_7085.JPG (898.25 KiB) Viewed 1468 times
This is the Radius Arm set to 8.6 inches down, it slightly covers the lower/right hole
IMG_7105.JPG
IMG_7105.JPG (808.9 KiB) Viewed 1468 times
You can see it sit quite high
IMG_7106.JPG
IMG_7106.JPG (1.13 MiB) Viewed 1468 times
Positive Camber.. Now I have to do this all over.. Bummer!!
IMG_7107.JPG
IMG_7107.JPG (634.58 KiB) Viewed 1468 times
 Thanks,
Bill
65' 356 SC Cab Irish Green :D
82' SC Targa
81 VW Westfalia with 2015 Forester Engine
BMW 64'-R50/2, 75'-BMW R90/6, 74' BMW R90/6, Yamaha BW350

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Doug McDonnell
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#12 Post by Doug McDonnell »

Re: Lowering the front and rear suspension
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#5 Post by John Brooks » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:56 am

Go get a good digital level first, be sure is has a magnetic "V" grove on one edge. Replace the torsion bar bushings before you start. Count the clicks as you unwind the torsion bar, both the same amount it's easy, but if you have not done it before it's hard. The best part is being new, you will do it several times before you get it correct. From an old post by John Brooks
1965 356C 2000 BMW 740i Sport 1967 Honda CL77 There is never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over.

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Martin Benade
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#13 Post by Martin Benade »

Bill, did you arrive at the 20 degree number off a chart, or as a calculation of the correction to your previous setting? A change based on the measured camber is probably the most predictable way to get what you want. Good luck on your next go-around. At least you are now in practice, it’ll go faster.
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Bill Lawless
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#14 Post by Bill Lawless »

Hi Martin,
I did get measurements at the start, But both side were different and the top the the wheel edge was above the edge of the fender so
So I decided to start fresh and I used the Table numbers.. As stated the manual says to use 21.5* and I used 20*
But I'm still not sure where to set it, I'd hate to do it 3 times..
 Thanks,
Bill
65' 356 SC Cab Irish Green :D
82' SC Targa
81 VW Westfalia with 2015 Forester Engine
BMW 64'-R50/2, 75'-BMW R90/6, 74' BMW R90/6, Yamaha BW350

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C J Murray
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Re: Yet another question on Rear Camber..

#15 Post by C J Murray »

Are those gas shocks?

What was the angle before you started the change? What was the camber?

What is the camber now?
'57 Speedster
'59 Sunroof
'60 Devin D Porsche Race Car
'63 Cabriolet "Norm"
'67 911 S Original Owner
'03 Ferrari 575M
'09 Smart Passion

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