Wind Noise

356 Porsche-related discussions and questions.
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Peter M. Zimmermann
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Re: Wind Noise

#46 Post by Peter M. Zimmermann » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:03 pm

Just drove the car about 10 miles. Wind noise still present, but not nearly as bad. I find if I lower the passenger door window about an inch the noise becomes tolerable. I'm running out of options here, so I might have to tackle those dreaded rear quarter window seals. What to do, what to do?

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Mike Wilson
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Re: Wind Noise

#47 Post by Mike Wilson » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:40 pm

Maybe try closing the quarter windows on a sheet of paper to see if the seals are loose in spots? Any wind noise from the door glass? Maybe loose seals there?

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'63 B coupe

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Peter M. Zimmermann
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Re: Wind Noise

#48 Post by Peter M. Zimmermann » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:38 pm

Mike Wilson wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:40 pm
Maybe try closing the quarter windows on a sheet of paper to see if the seals are loose in spots? Any wind noise from the door glass? Maybe loose seals there?

Mike
You know, I looked at the door window seals but the noise seems to come from behind me. I'm going to try the paper suggestion tomorrow. When the car came to me it had rear quarter window seals hanging loose at the top on each side. I examined those seals, found them to be OK (still flexible, etc.), and re-glued them. I do notice that the frame's external seals have some cracking/splitting on both windows, confined to the lower rear "corners." I'll have to do a search to see if those seals can be replaced with the window installed, or if the window has to come out of the car.

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Mike Wilson
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Re: Wind Noise

#49 Post by Mike Wilson » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:58 pm

If you are replacing the seal on the outside of the frame, the quarter window needs to be removed.
I've sometimes noticed wind noise from the rear of the door frame where the deflector is located.

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Mark Sabbann
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Re: Wind Noise

#50 Post by Mark Sabbann » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:16 am

I was able to reduce some wind noise at the door by using a piece of 1/4" diameter rope inside the two layers of door seal to add bulk and make it thicker. A new seal probably would have helped but this was a quick and cheap solution. The rope didn't compress much but an alternative if the gap is less might be the "pre-caulk backer rod" used to fill gaps before caulking. Called 'rod' but it's foam and not rigid. At your local home improvement center in different diameters.
Mark Sabbann
1964 SC Coupe 'Essy'
1965 C Coupe 'The Yellow Delicious'

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Norm Miller
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Re: Wind Noise

#51 Post by Norm Miller » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:08 am

I did not read all of the posts, have you tried driving with the rear ¼ window on the right open about an inch?
The A is like a missile and creates a vacuum that needs to be balanced.
You need to let the vacuum escape!

In the day we would put a fan inside the car and I would smoke my pipe inside and someone outside would watch where the smoke might escape.
N
 

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Re: Wind Noise

#52 Post by Mike Wilson » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:04 pm

Mark and Peter: before I restored my car, I made the door seal a bit fatter using the foam strip insulation you find at your local hardware stores.

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Peter M. Zimmermann
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Re: Wind Noise

#53 Post by Peter M. Zimmermann » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:08 pm

Norm; good suggestion! I'll try that next time that I drive the car.

Mark; I have replaced the door seals with rubber from International Mercantile. They are a complex single layer seal, opposed to your "two layer" seal. That said, I will do the piece of paper trick once more, perhaps I missed something on the first try.

Mike; I was afraid you were going to tell me to take those windows out! Also, I'm not sure that I'll need the foam/weatherstrip in addition to the new seal, the doors are very hard to close. The new seals require an almost "slam" to shut the doors properly, and almost always require a second attempt. That said, the paper trick should tell me something.

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Re: Wind Noise

#54 Post by Geoff Fleming » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:25 am

It is an unfortunate fact but most modern replacement door seals are very poor quality. The originals were quite supple and allowed the doors to close easily while many of the new seals are made of a very hard rubber compound that is also too thick. You can be driven crazy trying to get the doors to close properly if you have the new seals. They simply do not compress very well.

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Peter M. Zimmermann
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Re: Wind Noise

#55 Post by Peter M. Zimmermann » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:53 am

Geoff Fleming wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:25 am
It is an unfortunate fact but most modern replacement door seals are very poor quality. The originals were quite supple and allowed the doors to close easily while many of the new seals are made of a very hard rubber compound that is also too thick. You can be driven crazy trying to get the doors to close properly if you have the new seals. They simply do not compress very well.
I bought a pair of door seals from a supplier, but they were very thin and flimsy. I compared them to the original seals, and they were so thin they might not have touched the door! I returned them and bought a pair from International Mercantile in CA. Those seals are very nice, and close in shape to the originals. They seem to be flexible enough, and soft enough to compress as necessary. I just don't know at this point, I'll have to wait and see how the doors shut after some time passes.

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Re: Wind Noise

#56 Post by Jim Hohensee » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:00 pm

Peter, I admire your persistance. 1/4 window seals all seem to develope cracks on the rear most curved part with time. Unless they are severe they should not contribute to noticeable wind noise. Door seals can be a real pain to get perfect. All the remedys previously mentioned are good if they are not making good contact. Even the factory work shop manual mentions glueing in rubber in the body channel to move the rubber out. I have solved the opposite problem by adjusting the latch receiver in a little too far and leaving the door closed. The longer the better or in the sun if possible. Usually the door will eventually close properly and the final adjustment can be made. In extreme cases I had to trim a little off the back of the rubber.
Hope this helps,
Jim

As much as I still enjoy driving my 1958 coupe there are times when the noise level from wind and general clatter can take away a little from the experience. We have been spoiled by modern cars as cookie cutter as they can be. The manufacturers spend millions of dollars on controlling noise with research and materials that did not even exist in the 50's. Despite this driving a 356 on winding road is still hard to beat!

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Peter M. Zimmermann
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Re: Wind Noise

#57 Post by Peter M. Zimmermann » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:25 pm

Jim Hohensee wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:00 pm
Peter, I admire your persistance. 1/4 window seals all seem to develope cracks on the rear most curved part with time. Unless they are severe they should not contribute to noticeable wind noise. Door seals can be a real pain to get perfect. All the remedys previously mentioned are good if they are not making good contact. Even the factory work shop manual mentions glueing in rubber in the body channel to move the rubber out. I have solved the opposite problem by adjusting the latch receiver in a little too far and leaving the door closed. The longer the better or in the sun if possible. Usually the door will eventually close properly and the final adjustment can be made. In extreme cases I had to trim a little off the back of the rubber.
Hope this helps,
Jim

As much as I still enjoy driving my 1958 coupe there are times when the noise level from wind and general clatter can take away a little from the experience. We have been spoiled by modern cars as cookie cutter as they can be.
The manufacturers spend millions of dollars on controlling noise with research and materials that did not even exist in the 50's. Despite this driving a 356 on winding road is still hard to beat!
Jim, you hit that nail square on its head! I had a friend once say to me, "The worst car built today is a better car than those built 20 - 30 years ago." I wasn't sure about that comment, but thinking about our '58s, and the fact that they are now slightly more than SIXTY years old - wow! It's a wonder that some of them still work at all!

And, yes, 356s can still be fun to drive, IF they can be kept out of the way of Suburbans, Escalades, and 4-door pick up trucks!

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Re: Wind Noise

#58 Post by Richard Emerson » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:58 pm

I just finished reading Denis Jenkinson’s book on 356’s, where he spent 10 years and a few hundred thousand miles driving his early A all over Europe. Among his other points, he wrote at length about how the car was So incredibly quiet.

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Peter M. Zimmermann
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Re: Wind Noise

#59 Post by Peter M. Zimmermann » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:38 pm

Richard Emerson wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:58 pm
Among his other points, he wrote at length about how the car was So incredibly quiet.
LOL! But...compared to what? You know, I've owned a '64 SC coupe, a '64 C coupe, a '62 S90 coupe, a '59 A model coupe, and 3 Speedsters, one '58 and two '57s. Except for the Speedsters, which almost always had the top down, I honestly can't remember having barely tolerable wind noise in any of the coupes. Of course, the SC had under 40K miles, the C had unknown mileage, the S90 had under 100K miles, and the A model was a restoration project with all new seals. The '58 coupe I'm fighting wind noise with has about 240K documented miles, and probably has the original 1/4 window seals.

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Peter M. Zimmermann
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Re: Wind Noise

#60 Post by Peter M. Zimmermann » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:53 pm

OK, I just returned from a drive. Before leaving I taped the right rear 1/4 window using 2" painters tape. Nicely closed I took the car up the street, reached about 50 mph, and the noise from behind me is gone. But now I can clearly hear wind noise from the left door window frame to body seal, so the noise shifted from the rear to the front. I can slide a piece of paper, cut from a manila envelope, around about 3/4 of the door window frame, but there is some resistance which indicates at least light contact.

I'm beginning to feel like a dog chasing its tail! Mike W. wrote above to glue in foam weatherstrip under the rubber, but I wonder if the car should just be driven with the rear quarter windows open a bit. Norm M. wrote above that the vacuum must be balanced, which makes me wonder how much "wind noise" is acceptable inside these very old cars. Can anyone of our readers tell me if they have successfully made a '58 coupe quiet at speed?

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